Apologists Harassing Critics

[_DrW]

Assuming that MG's main goal here is to tamp down evidence, ideas and commentary that he sees as harmful to his idea of Mormonism, he accomplishes his goal when active and insightful posters leave the board in frustration.

It's like Republican senators Flake and Corker resigning from the Senate as a form of protest against Trumpism. Nothing is accomplished for the country, or the Republican party, by such resignations. It just gets worse, because Steve Bannon is now free do what he can to assure that their replacements are as radical, ignorant, and destructive as he is.

Better that the thoughtful posters stay, whether critics or apologists, and just put folks like MG on ignore.

[_sock puppet]

Lurking here has actually become annoying, trying to wade through (past?) the exchanges from both parties. I can only imagine there are others out there similarly tired of the drama. I am not keen on censorship, but if neither wants to contribute to the actual discussion and instead just wants to troll, then why allow them to impede the intelligent discourse? I walk away from such foolishness in person, and it is not like the community members (or moderators on their behalf) have to tolerate it here.

Part of the problem is that Poe's Law is real and what to some is trolling to others is sincere argument. I don't think you can moderate trolling without risking censoring opinions you disagree with. If MG were to be queued, it would be more narrowly for habitually derailing threads. Derailing is a tricky area too, because conversations evolve organically and it is perfectly appropriate to make and follow tangential comments. I err on the side of caution every time with derailing, but it is clear to me from issues I've responded to and a survey of posting history that MG has been more maliciously derailing in a way that violates the spirit of the rule.

I agree with everything you've said. To protect the free speech on this board, we are going to have to individually sort through a lot of trolling. I appreciate that you have that attitude of restraint and only use Mod powers when it's clearly something that's crossed the line.

But if not full blown, MG is on the cusp of being an OCD troller.

[Guest]

Part of the problem is that Poe's Law is real and what to some is trolling to others is sincere argument. I don't think you can moderate trolling without risking censoring opinions you disagree with. If MG were to be queued, it would be more narrowly for habitually derailing threads. Derailing is a tricky area too, because conversations evolve organically and it is perfectly appropriate to make and follow tangential comments. I err on the side of caution every time with derailing, but it is clear to me from issues I've responded to and a survey of posting history that MG has been more maliciously derailing in a way that violates the spirit of the rule.

Most of the time when we get someone on the board who is accused of trolling that sinks the discussion quality it seems to me like parties on both sides are participants in reducing the value of the discussion in favor of engaging in attacks on one another. Those are boring trolls that unfortunately seem to act like zombies capable of converting others to their behavior. Interesting trolls are ones who at least take the time to bait and taunt such that the conversations are more than bickering about one another's behavior. Oops, like I guess I just did. My point being I hope we don't see the board change considerably because of MG and those who have converted to zombie trolling with him.

I took a trip down memory lane to read the very first thread where MG participated in his current iteration and he was as thick as lead in that conversation. Yet some interesting posting was made which I think made for interesting reading. I enjoyed many posts as well as participating, anyway:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29712&start=48

It would seem wise to take a step back and consider that how one responds to those like MG is a significant factor in the overall quality of what gets produced. We'll always have our MG's with us. I've often appreciated his participation for reasons. But frankly I stopped engaging with MG months ago because of the entire whirlwind that brewed up around him more so than because of MG alone.

[_EAllusion]

I said this in a conversation with someone that seems appropriate to share:

Rule #4 does speak directly to what he [MG] is doing with some frequency. I have had to moderate more than a handful of his posts that were reported on those grounds. I'm super-wary of "derailing" being invoked arbitrarily as a means to censor people. The fact is people get lost in tangents all the time and conversation with others wouldn't be as fun or productive if they didn't. People are "off-topic" all the time and I remember quite clearly how arbitrarily declaring things "off-topic" was used by mods on MADB to censor people. But what MG was doing was just entering thread after thread and immediately going into a totally unrelated topic to inflame and attack. If "no derailing" means anything, it's got to include that.

I don't favor queuing people simply because they break a rule from time to time. Some of the people reading this would definitely be on the queue if that were the case. I am supportive of a brief queue in this case because of the contextual circumstances. I also want to be absolutely clear that I think people threatening to leave if something isn't done to censor MG should have no bearing on whether action is taken or not.

[Guest]

[_Jersey Girl]

Anyway, after the countless threads started after someone got banned over at MDD it would be pretty funny to see that kind of thing startup around here.

Who is suggesting that MG be banned?

[Guest]

[_Lemmie]

.... I did finally add someone to ignore though - Lemmie. She's worse than the mosquitoes in south east texas....

I'll take that ignore for the badge of honor it is. You really don't like it when someone asks you to provide actual support for those "statements of fact" that you just "know" in your gut are right, do you?!

[_Jersey Girl]

Who is suggesting that MG be banned?

Reading between the lines that seems to be what all the rage quitting is about. "me or him"

A better idea would be to read the actual lines themselves. No one here has called for a banning.

Sheesh.

[Guest]