Apologists Harassing Critics

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_Lemmie
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Re: Apologists Harassing Critics

Post by _Lemmie »

Res Ipsa wrote:I'm sorry, Lemmie, but I don't see a meaningful distinction. A general comment about a person is a general comment about a person. Nothing about MG's comment impacts Gridael's real life in any way. That Grindael chose to share his historical research here doesn't give him any special protection.

I think you're stretching the meaning of the rule well beyond what it was intended to cover. If I send Grindael's publisher a bunch of his more intemperate posts from here in order to try and get the publisher to drop publication, that's using the board to interfere in his real life. If I post his more intemperate posts in another online forum along with his real life name and contact information in order to encourage them to harass him, that's using the board to interfere in his real life. Calling him a name on this board is not interfering in his real life.

we'll have to agree to disagree. grindael felt his professional reputation was being impugned in a venue that was accessible by his professional circle, and he expressed his opinion as such repeatedly.
_Shulem
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Re: Apologists Harassing Critics

Post by _Shulem »

Kishkumen wrote:OK. Well, thanks to everyone who helped me see matters more clearly. I guess I will just continue to ignore MG as I have in the past. I can't bring myself to spend my time on him, and I don't see any reason to change. I see his posts, and my eyes glaze over. Boring, inane, pointless. Not my bag.

I hope others who feel similarly will do likewise.


Perfect.

You've made the best choice and it's the right thing to do.

:wink:
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Apologists Harassing Critics

Post by _Res Ipsa »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:On the other hand, it seems to me like he does a ton of over explaining himself. I recognize that because I do it too. Look at any of my threads explaining why I said something. Is it a sign of over-inflated self importance or a sign of insecurity? I'm pretty sure I know which it is in myself. Not sure about him.


It's more or less because I think I'm being either misinterpreted at times, so I try to straighten things out. At other times I believe that I have been intentionally taken out of context...so that a false narrative ensues, or a strawman has been created. So I make/made it known.

It would be wonderful to NOT to continually either repeat myself and/or try to clarify what has either been intentionally misinterpreted. Granted, there are times when I have not been as clear/precise as I could have been. But I think even the best and most articulate of us may run into that problem at times. :smile:

Regards,
MG


See, I read that last bit and the first thought I have is, if it would be wonderful, why not stop? You don't have to do any of it. You choose to. Ask yourself, why do I choose to? And the answer can't be "because some other person said such and such." That doesn't answer the question.

Look, when I'm actively posting here, someone misunderstands me several times a day. And vice versa. It's the nature of the beast. Or I'm a lousy communicator. Go back over my stuff and look how often I say: "I'm sorry, that's not what I meant. Or "that's not what I meant to say." Or "what I was trying to say was." It happens, and it happens on message boards frequently because we can't give the types of nonverbal cues that help us communicate more clearly. I see accusations of deliberate distortion flung around here all the time, and my opinion is that 99% of them are BS. In almost every case, if you sit back, take a breath, and read the whole conversation with an eye toward trying to figure out why someone characterized what you said the way they did, you can see how it happened and it has nothing to do with deliberate misrepresentation. In fact, in my Choo Choo post, I was tempted to single out "you misrepresented me" as a classic example of a substance to meta derail.

(That's right folks, you can view Res Ipsa's classic post "Choo Choo Crash" absolutely free by going to the Paradise Forum and looking for the title. The first 100 clickers will receive a bonus gift: the timeless collection of posts called "Rambling crap Res Ipsa posts. Don't wait. This is a time limited offer. Oops, to late. Your loss.)

Point is, most of your explanations sound like lengthy justifications for why whatever the kerfuffle is is due to someone else's choices. If you go back and look, do you see that?
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Water Dog
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Re: Apologists Harassing Critics

Post by _Water Dog »

Last edited by Guest on Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Apologists Harassing Critics

Post by _Res Ipsa »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Lemmie wrote:grindael said ""you are an asshole" to an anonmymous poster.

mentalgymnast's said "you are a loser" specifically regarding grindael's in real life professional work, with the intent to mock and harass.


Back to the link that has been posted upthread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44421&start=84

I was called Mental Asshole also Dickwad.

Regards,
MG


We know. And you called Grindael a loser. I think we have a grasp of the basic facts.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_mentalgymnast
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Re: Apologists Harassing Critics

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Res Ipsa wrote:
We know. And you called Grindael a loser. I think we have a grasp of the basic facts.


I did. It wasn't one of my better moments. I was pretty perturbed at him at the time...as he was with me.

Regards,
MG
_Water Dog
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Re: Apologists Harassing Critics

Post by _Water Dog »

Last edited by Guest on Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Water Dog
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Re: Apologists Harassing Critics

Post by _Water Dog »

Last edited by Guest on Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Apologists Harassing Critics

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Lemmie wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:I'm sorry, Lemmie, but I don't see a meaningful distinction. A general comment about a person is a general comment about a person. Nothing about MG's comment impacts Gridael's real life in any way. That Grindael chose to share his historical research here doesn't give him any special protection.

I think you're stretching the meaning of the rule well beyond what it was intended to cover. If I send Grindael's publisher a bunch of his more intemperate posts from here in order to try and get the publisher to drop publication, that's using the board to interfere in his real life. If I post his more intemperate posts in another online forum along with his real life name and contact information in order to encourage them to harass him, that's using the board to interfere in his real life. Calling him a name on this board is not interfering in his real life.

we'll have to agree to disagree. grindael felt his professional reputation was being impugned in a venue that was accessible by his professional circle, and he expressed his opinion as such repeatedly.


I saw him express that in the last couple of weeks in response to other comments I didn't see it expressed in response to the "loser" comment last year. And, seriously, do you really think that an anonymous guy on the internet saying "you're a loser" has any impact at all on Grindael's reputation with professional historians who might drop in here? I'm not sure that passes the "Aw, c'mon" test.

Anyway, my point wasn't to criticize you -- just to make the point that there is inconsistency in how people behave everywhere you look. If it wasn't so hard to spot inconsistency in oneself, I'd have included me as an example. If you look a little, I'm sure you or anyone can find some in my posts with very little effort.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Apologists Harassing Critics

Post by _Res Ipsa »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
We know. And you called Grindael a loser. I think we have a grasp of the basic facts.


I did. It wasn't one of my better moments. I was pretty perturbed at him at the time...as he was with me.

Regards,
MG


We know. Lemmie and I are discussing fine distinctions involving consistency and inconsistency. What do you think you are adding to that conversation and why?
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
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