A federal grand jury has approved

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_MeDotOrg
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Re: A federal grand jury has approved

Post by _MeDotOrg »

One of the strategies mentioned before the indictments were handed down was that going after a small fish could lead to a bigger fish. In the short term the announcement of the Papadopoulos plea bargain is the beginning of something direct and damming.

In the plea bargain, Papadopoulos is mentioned emailing at least 2 campaign officials that give him various levels of encouragement. Who are these officials? Why are they not named? Obviously Mueller's team knows their identities. You get the feeling that those officials will, at some point, be the recipients of either plea bargains or indictments.

The White House has dismissed Papadopoulos as a volunteer, which is interesting given the following from the plea bargain.

The government notes that the official forwarded defendant PAPADOPOULOS’s email to another Campaign official (without including defendant PAPADOPOULOS) and stated: “Let's discuss. We need someone to communicate that DT is not doing these trips. It should be someone low level in the campaign so as not to send any signal.

Now I would like if a lawyer (Res Ipsa?) weighed in on this, but it seems to me that there is a lot in that little statement.
One, there seems to be an awareness that communicating with the Russians is something that should not see the light of day.
We need someone to communicate that DT is not doing this trips."

The next sentence is what makes the White House's dismissal of Papadopoulos as a low level volunteer so interesting:
It should be someone low level in the campaign so as not send any signal.

So it seems to me that they are showing a willingness to communicate with the Russians, and that is should be low level to protect 'DT' with deniability. Having two Campaign officials strategizing in an email about communicating with the Russians sounds an awful lot like conspiracy to me. (It's important to remember that the term 'collusion' is not used in indictments.) The other thing is that this did not stop with Papadopoulos, with 2 officials discussing this without including Papadopoulos in the correspondence.

Anyway, this is round one. I doubt very much that the identities of the Campaign officials will remain secret forever. But the very fact that they still are secret could very well mean that negotiations between Mueller and those 2 officials are still continuing. You don't rat down, you rat up.
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_moksha
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Re: A federal grand jury has approved

Post by _moksha »

The Trump strategy as expressed by Sarah Sanders is based on the belief that non-Republicans (the Republicans will go along with anything for their party) are so gullible to believe that Hillary Clinton arranged for the Russians to did up dirt on her and she did it through the auspices of both the Trump family and his top campaign staff. People would have to be either stupid or Republican to fall for such claptrap.

Trump is a brazen pathological liar. Shame on Sarah Sanders. She knows she is lying and yet she continues to lie. Republicanism is no defense for such behavior.
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_Some Schmo
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Re: A federal grand jury has approved

Post by _Some Schmo »

moksha wrote:She knows she is lying and yet she continues to lie. Republicanism is no defense for such behavior.

That is exactly what Republicanism has become. In Drumpf's party, that is the behavior.
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_EAllusion
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Re: A federal grand jury has approved

Post by _EAllusion »

Trump's primary strategy of responding to criticism is to accuse the critic of the same fault. "I know you are, but what am I." We've seen this more times than any one person can remember.

Right now, that is the main strategy of responding to developments in the Russia/collusion investigation. Sarah Sanders is merely following a formal strategy of "No puppet. No puppet. You're the puppet." Any new disclosure is just a Clinton/press plot against the dear leader.

This Bagdad Bob level of lying is crazy-making and unhealthy for our Republic.

PPP polled the public about a month ago and Trump voters thought Russia wanted Clinton to win the election 41-29 (the rest unsure). They did the poll again after the Uranium One / Steele Dossier manufactured stories in right-wing media. It's now up to 56-18.

That 1) people, especially Republicans, can be made to believe anything on the basis of partisan loyalty and 2) that people, especially Republican leaders, are prepared to exploit that for unethical ends is a like having a festering sore in our democracy.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: A federal grand jury has approved

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

subgenius wrote:For those of you smart enough to read for comprehension and make your own decisions.

Here is a link to the actual Manafort indictment:
https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download

and yeah, nothing Trump will come of this - so, wash the lighter fluid out yo hair


Please. Go ahead and post the relevant parts of the indictment you see are 'nothing' and explain your position.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: A federal grand jury has approved

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

I mean, here is Carter Paige, a Trump advisor admitting to meeting with Rosneft (start at 27:30):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEmg4DN ... pp=desktop

He later denied it after the dossier came out. That's the same oil company listed in the dossier that later sold 19.5% to an unknown entity....

But then again I wouldn't expect someone like Subgenius, our resident paint chip connoisseur, to even have a grasp of much less be aware of the Rosneft deal.

This is the problem with our Trumpites. They just don't understand anything related to geopolitics, national security, and the traitorous behavior of Trump and virtually everyone that surrounds him. And I mean everyone.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_subgenius
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Re: A federal grand jury has approved

Post by _subgenius »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
subgenius wrote:For those of you smart enough to read for comprehension and make your own decisions.

Here is a link to the actual Manafort indictment:
https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download

and yeah, nothing Trump will come of this - so, wash the lighter fluid out yo hair


Please. Go ahead and post the relevant parts of the indictment you see are 'nothing' and explain your position.

- Doc

Relevant to Trump? none of it...relevant to Manafort? all of it. There is nothing in that indictment that implicates anything to do with Trump nor does it imply anything to do with any election in the US....perhaps you could illuminate us all with the smoking guns that you see strewn about?...or do you need a moment to get your tin foil hat properly affixed upon thy cranium?
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_EAllusion
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Re: A federal grand jury has approved

Post by _EAllusion »

Matt Tait summarized yesterday's news thusly:

Manafort indicted for money laundering, lying to FBI and FARA violations.
Papadopoulos pleads guilty to lying to FBI about colluding with Russia.
Mueller probe extends to include Tony Podesta
Trump transgender ban gets injunction
FBI opens investigation into $300m Puerto Rico contract award
US forces detain major Benghazi suspect
Mattis and Tillerson argue at SASC for an AUMF with no geographic or time bounds
Carter Page goes on TV because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Kelly defends Robert E Lee from podium
Kelly says won't ever apologize to congressman he publicly lied about
GTMO case against al-Nashiri goes off the rails
Oh and Bergdahl judge says unlawful command influence by Trump may adversely prejudice the sentencing in Berghdals favor.

Other than that, pretty uneventful To be honest.

And I can think of a few notable stories on top of this. I don't know how the average American even has the capacity to follow the news.
_subgenius
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Re: A federal grand jury has approved

Post by _subgenius »

beastie wrote:
subgenius wrote:At least your consistently an idiot.


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Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_EAllusion
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Re: A federal grand jury has approved

Post by _EAllusion »

subgenius wrote:Relevant to Trump? none of it...relevant to Manafort? all of it. There is nothing in that indictment that implicates anything to do with Trump nor does it imply anything to do with any election in the US....perhaps you could illuminate us all with the smoking guns that you see strewn about?...or do you need a moment to get your tin foil hat properly affixed upon thy cranium?


Trump's campaign manager laundering money from Russia for unknown services rendered while he was campaign manager for Donald Trump and there are multiple threads of evidence suggesting Donald Trump's campaign abetted Russian efforts to influence the election on their behalf = has nothing to do with Donald Trump.

Even if you can't see the possibility of some implication of Trump down the road, you think the fact that Donald Trump hires criminal conspirators against the United States to run his campaign has nothing to do with Donald Trump? Ok there buddy. Hey, does the Papadopoulos plea deal and the information out in public on that case also have nothing to do with Trump? Asking for a friend.
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