Reason is Resistance

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_Kishkumen
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Reason is Resistance

Post by _Kishkumen »

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind/534231/

In reading this fascinating article that describes America’s descent into intellectual chaos and fantasy, the thought crossed my mind that the high percentage of ex-Mormon atheists may be a natural, healthy rejection of B.S.. When you awake to the fact that you have been up to your ears in B.S. most of your life, and you now find it distasteful in the extreme, is it not natural to be allergic to lunacy and fraud?

Indeed, at a time when our country is being dragged down by con-artists, hucksters, grifters, and conspiracy theorists, being an empiricist or naturalist of one stripe or another may be the highest form of patriotism. If being religious makes a person more susceptible to B.S.—and that is a big if, then perhaps being a skeptic and an empiricist helps one see through the nonsense. Perhaps it is now necessary to reject the unreal to save us from the rising tide of poisonous fantasies that are about to drown us.

Ex-Mormons may be among reality’s most useful friends.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Dr. Shades
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Re: Reason is Resistance

Post by _Dr. Shades »

Kishkumen wrote:Indeed, at a time when our country is being dragged down by con-artists, hucksters, grifters, and conspiracy theorists, . . .

In what way are conspiracy theorists dragging down the country? To my knowledge, they're not bilking anyone out of their money. . . or even asking for any.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_Sanctorian
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Re: Reason is Resistance

Post by _Sanctorian »

Shades has obviously never watched the movie Conspiracy Theory staring Mel Gibson. If that wasn’t a money grab, I don’t know what is. :cool:
I'm a Ziontologist. I self identify as such.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Reason is Resistance

Post by _Kishkumen »

edited for crankiness.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Gadianton
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Re: Reason is Resistance

Post by _Gadianton »

In what way are conspiracy theorists dragging down the country? To my knowledge, they're not bilking anyone out of their money. . . or even asking for any.


Is it possible to drag down the country in ways other than asking for money?

I deal with the conspiracy problem everyday in my family and there are serious practical consequences. The worst part is, once tapped into a vein of junk news, a search engine like Yahoo is very good at agnostically going out and discovering more junk news and having it all ready for viewing as soon as the computer is online.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Sanctorian
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Re: Reason is Resistance

Post by _Sanctorian »

I agree with Kish and Gadianton on this one. Conspiracy theorist can create an socioeconomic cost. Take Obama’s birth certificate as an example. It never really mattered where he was born, but those that pushed this idea created division and distraction to his politics. It’s been further amplified by the loudest voice pushing this idea now making his way to the presidency and attempting to undo Obama’s entire presidency brick by brick. Regardless of party lines, it’s cost society lost time and money.
I'm a Ziontologist. I self identify as such.
_Dr Exiled
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Re: Reason is Resistance

Post by _Dr Exiled »

Doesn't skepticism lead to questioning everything, even what the mainstream corporate media tries to tell us? Certainly corporate media has a corporate agenda and slants the news accordingly. Noam Chomsky showed us that with "manufacturing consent." As for conspiracies, they happen all the time. Jails and prisons are full of conspirators. The Mormon church sure opened my eyes to that with their attempts to hide their history. It wasn't just one leader who joined in the hiding history, but many. Hence, a conspiracy.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Kishkumen
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Re: Reason is Resistance

Post by _Kishkumen »

Gadianton wrote:Is it possible to drag down the country in ways other than asking for money?

I deal with the conspiracy problem everyday in my family and there are serious practical consequences. The worst part is, once tapped into a vein of junk news, a search engine like Yahoo is very good at agnostically going out and discovering more junk news and having it all ready for viewing as soon as the computer is online.


The interesting thing about the article is that it sets out a historical explanation for how we got here. I think it would take a lot more work to do a thorough job, but what the author proposed was pretty persuasive. Of course, nonsense has always been with us. What has changed is a person's ability both to inhabit a nice bubble of nonsense while also communicating regularly with likeminded persons.

When I talk to my mother on the phone, it is amazing to me that she comes to any conversation that touches on politics fully armed with a bogus narrative that answers any facts with pseudo-facts. She has been captured by some odd ecosystem of nonsense that is so emotionally important to her that even to suggest that she question it results in shouts on the other end of the line. Only after very careful, laborious, and calm talking can I get to a point where reason will even be entertained as something other than a scheme of the liberals.

And, let's face it, religion can provide a wonderful entry into this world of unreality. If a person is willing to stake their life's fortune and opportunities on unattested ancient civilizations and disappearing documents, what might they not be found capable of buying into? All it takes is to get them to accede to that first request to ask God to make you feel good about what some prophet it telling you. Believe, in other words, what feels good. Then all kinds of phantoms and fantasies can rule your life. Whatever you find appealing or not becomes true or not, and to hell with the facts.

Is it any wonder that the Mormon community is so susceptible to snake oil and affinity fraud?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Gadianton
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Re: Reason is Resistance

Post by _Gadianton »

Doesn't skepticism lead to questioning everything, even what the mainstream corporate media tries to tell us?


absolutely. And with a lot of what I have to deal with, there's a thin, often a very thin, layer of truth. And there are in fact, actual conspiracies. A lot of this stuff is pretty trivial to debunk though.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Kishkumen
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Reason is Resistance

Post by _Kishkumen »

Exiled wrote:Doesn't skepticism lead to questioning everything, even what the mainstream corporate media tries to tell us? Certainly corporate media has a corporate agenda and slants the news accordingly. Noam Chomsky showed us that with "manufacturing consent." As for conspiracies, they happen all the time. Jails and prisons are full of conspirators. The Mormon church sure opened my eyes to that with their attempts to hide their history. It wasn't just one leader who joined in the hiding history, but many. Hence, a conspiracy.


Well, yes, of course. I think it is good to approach every claim with a certain reserve and demand for corroborating evidence. For example, the claims that got us into the Iraq War were extremely dodgy, and I never bought into them. I think it is reasonable to be vigilant about most things. But then one needs to be careful not to allow healthy suspicion to devolve into paranoia and placing trust in outright charlatans.

As for Mormon history, I am not sure I am comfortable with the word conspiracy as used in its popular sense. I think it is undeniable that Mormon history has been edited and massaged from day one. But I am not sure this was done out of some consciously sinister desire to control others. A lot of times I think the editing was done out wishful thinking and a desire to portray what one believes in in the best light.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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