Tidal wave of sexual assault-misconduct allegations list

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hrm. An interesting article written by a woman on the #metoo phenomenon:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42200092

The backlash fear here is that if all cases of bad behaviour are treated equally this could quickly become a vendetta in which lots and lots of men are implicated and punished. Men will be seen as the bad guys simply for the crime of being male.

Already men are nervously asking what's acceptable and what's not. Is all flirting now banned? Is a pat on the back ok, but a pat on the bottom always a sackable offence? This confusion could fast turn to anger.

The risk is that men, feeling under siege, kick back and say "enough is enough, this is not fair". Then we risk losing the support and sympathy of our male colleagues. We do indeed become seen as witch hunters, or worse, as witches.

The article is short and worth a quick scan.

- Doc

[_Jersey Girl]

Hrm. An interesting article written by a woman on the #metoo phenomenon:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42200092

The backlash fear here is that if all cases of bad behaviour are treated equally this could quickly become a vendetta in which lots and lots of men are implicated and punished. Men will be seen as the bad guys simply for the crime of being male.

Already men are nervously asking what's acceptable and what's not. Is all flirting now banned? Is a pat on the back ok, but a pat on the bottom always a sackable offence? This confusion could fast turn to anger.

The risk is that men, feeling under siege, kick back and say "enough is enough, this is not fair". Then we risk losing the support and sympathy of our male colleagues. We do indeed become seen as witch hunters, or worse, as witches.

The article is short and worth a quick scan.

- Doc

I hear you and I hear her. I'll read the article later.

I'm afraid we're going to have to predictably deal with some amount of chaos until the societal pendulum swings back to something resembling a balanced position.

I have seen evidence in my own online searches, that the very same preventive measures I suggested months ago are being discussed publicly. Contrary to the feedback I received, they are NOT impossible to facilitate.

There's another issue here regarding female responsibility I want to insert into this thread. I'll have to locate the exact account I want to use.

[_Jersey Girl]

Here's the account I want to use. It's the first search result that I got this time. Perez Hilton this time, but there are many available that tell the same story.

In 2001, Matt invited the unnamed woman into his office at 30 Rockefeller Plaza. Lauer lured her into the office with claims that they'd be discussing work, however, he then proceeded to lock the door using a button under his desk. Lauer then ordered his peer to unbutton her blouse, a request she complied with.

The broadcaster then moved out from behind his desk, grabbed a chair, pulled down her pants, and bent the colleague over it. He reportedly sexually assaulted her, but the woman fell unconscious at some point during the encounter. The next thing she remembers is waking up on Lauer's office floor, with her pants halfway down her legs. This situation prompted Matt's assistant to take her to a nurse for medical attention

http://perezhilton.com/2017-11-30-matt- ... iM6wYWcGTA


Look at this: Lauer then ordered his peer to unbutton her blouse, a request she complied with.

If I were in Lauer's position, I would have taken that as a "yes". I contend that anyone would have taken that as a "yes".

Women have a responsibility to conduct themselves in such a way as to thwart unwanted advances. Does that help in every single instance of sexual misconduct? Of course not, but it would have helped in this account if it is accurate.

That's not victim blaming. Not everything can be neatly fit into the category of "victim blaming" because at that point you suspend thought and your own common sense.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I have seen evidence in my own online searches, that the very same preventive measures I suggested months ago are being discussed publicly. Contrary to the feedback I received, they are NOT impossible to facilitate.

There's another issue here regarding female responsibility I want to insert into this thread. I'll have to locate the exact account I want to use.

Well, being prudent worked for me throughout my military career. It also worked to create a professional environment. I will note that one of the reasons commanders always had their First Sergeant or Sergeant Major with them in their office during meetings with subordinates was to preclude any accusations of impropriety.

Invariably, the commanders that ended up getting accused or fired over allegations of misconduct didn't have their right-hand leaders with them. It is what it is.

Oh, and good luck with that last bit. The White Knights are losing their minds if you suggest that people in positions of power should inoculate themselves with preventative measures or policies that include transparency and witnesses.

- Doc

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Here's the account I want to use. It's the first search result that I got this time. Perez Hilton this time, but there are many available that tell the same story.

In 2001, Matt invited the unnamed woman into his office at 30 Rockefeller Plaza. Lauer lured her into the office with claims that they'd be discussing work, however, he then proceeded to lock the door using a button under his desk. Lauer then ordered his peer to unbutton her blouse, a request she complied with.

The broadcaster then moved out from behind his desk, grabbed a chair, pulled down her pants, and bent the colleague over it. He reportedly sexually assaulted her, but the woman fell unconscious at some point during the encounter. The next thing she remembers is waking up on Lauer's office floor, with her pants halfway down her legs. This situation prompted Matt's assistant to take her to a nurse for medical attention

http://perezhilton.com/2017-11-30-matt- ... iM6wYWcGTA


Look at this: Lauer then ordered his peer to unbutton her blouse, a request she complied with.

If I were in Lauer's position, I would have taken that as a "yes". I contend that anyone would have taken that as a "yes".

Women have a responsibility to conduct themselves in such a way as to thwart unwanted advances. Does that help in every single instance of sexual misconduct? Of course not, but it would have helped in this account if it is accurate.

That's not victim blaming. Not everything can be neatly fit into the category of "victim blaming" because at that point you suspend thought and your own common sense.

I'm really interested in reading the police report of that encounter.

- Doc

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm really interested in reading the police report of that encounter.

- Doc

Was there one? Did I miss something that was right in front of my eyes? If there is, do you think we'll ever lay eyes on it?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I'm really interested in reading the police report of that encounter.

- Doc

Was there one? Did I miss something that was right in front of my eyes? If there is, do you think we'll ever lay eyes on it?

There's not. I was being facetious. And that's my point. If people just believe her version of events then, well, I don't know what to say. They're up in the night.

- Doc

[_Jersey Girl]

Thanks, Cam. You had me doubting myself when I read that. I should think (though I can't guarantee) that in the case of Matt Lauer, that NBC had enough credible evidence to relieve him of his position.

There's easily too much gone wrong with the process.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Thanks, Cam. You had me doubting myself when I read that. I should think (though I can't guarantee) that in the case of Matt Lauer, that NBC had enough credible evidence to relieve him of his position.

There's easily too much gone wrong with the process.

Well, yeah. He acted unprofessionally and certainly wasn't going to air his sexual business to an audience that is out for a guilty verdict and wouldn't tolerate the intolerable idea that his sexual partners were more than willing to get a notch on their belts, or use sex to advance themselves. Who knows what their motivations were. This is an easy call call for NBC.

That said, I don't believe Mr. Lauer was a Weinstein, and I certainly don't believe the women who decided to fool around with him were babes in the woods. Otoh, maybe he was a deviant and maybe he was awful.

Imho, professionals, married professionals more importantly, should, you know, grow the “F” up and be responsible for maintaining a workplace focused on the task at hand and not their egos, genitalia, or whatever else hurts the company.

- Doc

[_Jersey Girl]

Would you folks please keep my list thread going next week? I won't be able to tend to it. Just add the names in posts as you see fit with some sort of categorization.

I'd appreciate it!