Sawing off the branch on which it sits

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_Philo Sofee
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Re: Sawing off the branch on which it sits

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Maksutov wrote:Nancy Pearcey has been in the ID bull game for a long time. She was assisted for a while by Chuck Colson, who famously would have driven over his grandmother for Nixon but instead got busted, went to prison and left to become a born again douchebag instead of a regular douchebag. His logic and morals didn't seem to improve much in the transition. :wink:


As long as the ID-iots are against Dawkins, Dr. Peterson will continue using them. Same with Richard Carrier. All he does is simply quote someone he agrees with without ever reading the other side at all. It is obvious in the way he writes and ignores their evidences that he refuses to actually learn what they say. It is the Mormon way.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
_Maksutov
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Re: Sawing off the branch on which it sits

Post by _Maksutov »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Maksutov wrote:Nancy Pearcey has been in the ID bull game for a long time. She was assisted for a while by Chuck Colson, who famously would have driven over his grandmother for Nixon but instead got busted, went to prison and left to become a born again douchebag instead of a regular douchebag. His logic and morals didn't seem to improve much in the transition. :wink:


As long as the ID-iots are against Dawkins, Dr. Peterson will continue using them. Same with Richard Carrier. All he does is simply quote someone he agrees with without ever reading the other side at all. It is obvious in the way he writes and ignores their evidences that he refuses to actually learn what they say. It is the Mormon way.


DCP can count on his faithful readers NOT to read and understand atheist arguments. They are happy to assail the strawmen atheists he creates, however. :lol:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Philo Sofee
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Re: Sawing off the branch on which it sits

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Mak
DCP can count on his faithful readers NOT to read and understand atheist arguments. They are happy to assail the strawmen atheists he creates, however. :lol:

Yes.... the pure essence of apologetics. I made the moral mistake of actually reading and learning what the atheists were saying, by immorally taking the time to go through their own books, not what others thought they were saying. From there it's been all downhill, er, that is downhill for my apologetic days... :cool:
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
_Lemmie
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Re: Sawing off the branch on which it sits

Post by _Lemmie »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Maksutov wrote:Nancy Pearcey has been in the ID bull game for a long time. She was assisted for a while by Chuck Colson, who famously would have driven over his grandmother for Nixon but instead got busted, went to prison and left to become a born again douchebag instead of a regular douchebag. His logic and morals didn't seem to improve much in the transition. :wink:


As long as the ID-iots are against Dawkins, Dr. Peterson will continue using them. Same with Richard Carrier. All he does is simply quote someone he agrees with without ever reading the other side at all. It is obvious in the way he writes and ignores their evidences that he refuses to actually learn what they say. It is the Mormon way.


His obfuscation in doing so is getting old. In October, he posted a blog entry, that was again largely plagiarized from Nancy Pearcey's essay on Darwin and the Berenstain Bears, where he posted this at the end:
Please note that I’m taking no stance in the above about biological evolution as such.  And that I’m not, by any means, a Young-Earth Creationist.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterso ... 3585799864

But now, less than two months later:
Finally, IS Nancy Pearcey a young-Earth creationist who believes that humans and dinosaurs co-existed? It's certainly possible; I know little about her….
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterso ... -sits.html

:rolleyes: Right.
_Maksutov
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Re: Sawing off the branch on which it sits

Post by _Maksutov »

Looks like Dan's "manuscript" is a bundle of potshots at the New Atheists. :lol: I'm sure that will get him some attaboys from the Corporation, at least.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Philo Sofee
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Re: Sawing off the branch on which it sits

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Maksutov wrote:Looks like Dan's "manuscript" is a bundle of potshots at the New Atheists. :lol: I'm sure that will get him some attaboys from the Corporation, at least.


It's his bread and butter. To the normal Mormon it looks like he is a hero takin the big bad guys down, to the leaders, a solid member whose valiant in his testimony. To his wife, a man honoring his priesthood. To us, a biased one sided reader who refuses to actually engage in actual discussion of what atheists are truly saying, hence lacking any kind of scholarly credibility in these kinds of things. A true man of all seasons this!
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
_Lemmie
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Re: Sawing off the branch on which it sits

Post by _Lemmie »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Maksutov wrote:Looks like Dan's "manuscript" is a bundle of potshots at the New Atheists. :lol: I'm sure that will get him some attaboys from the Corporation, at least.


It's his bread and butter. To the normal Mormon it looks like he is a hero takin the big bad guys down, to the leaders, a solid member whose valiant in his testimony. To his wife, a man honoring his priesthood. To us, a biased one sided reader who refuses to actually engage in actual discussion of what atheists are truly saying, hence lacking any kind of scholarly credibility in these kinds of things. A true man of all seasons this!

And a plagiarist, once again. I reviewed Pearcey's chapter, Darwin meets the Berenstain Bears, and once again, virtually every single sentence DCP posts is straight out of Pearcey's work. This time, Peterson can't hide behind forgetfulness, or accidental error, because he said this in the comments:

Curious, too, that they both read as if I had quoted nobody OTHER than Pearcey in support of my doubts -- whereas I actually cited the distinguished philosophers Alvin Plantinga and Mary Midgley . . . as well as Mr. Charles Darwin himself....
Finally, IS Nancy Pearcey a young-Earth creationist who believes that humans and dinosaurs co-existed? It's certainly possible; I know little about her

DCP quotes all of those people because he plagiarizes Pearcey as she quotes all of those people as well. For example:
DCP wrote:Daniel Dennett’s trademark slogan is that Darwinism is a “universal acid” that “eats through just about every traditional concept” in religion and morality, and puts our views of the social order in an entirely different light
which he took straight from Pearcey:
Dennett's trademark metaphor is that Darwinism is "universal acid, ' that "eats through just about every traditional concept" of religion or morality or social order.
:rolleyes: Changing "metaphor" to "slogan" doesn't hide the plagiarism, Dan.

Another example:
DCP wrote:As Mary Midgley points out, if we accept the concept of memes as Dawkins and his co-believers seek to propagate it, we must conclude that the only reason they “campaign so ardently for neo-Darwinism must be that a neo-Darwinist meme . . . has infested their brains, forcing them to act in this way.”  After all, she says, “if you propose the method seriously you must apply it consistently.”

Which is virtually identical to Pearcey:
As Midgely argues, accept the idea of memes, and you must conclude that the only reason Dawkins and others “campaign so ardently for neo-Darwinism must be that a neo-Darwinist meme … has infested their brains, forcing them to act in this way.” After all, “if you propose the method seriously you must apply it consistently”

Again, DCP does things like trade "concept" for "idea," and "we must" for "you must," etc. Does he really think that hides the plagiarism?

DCP's title theme isn't even original:
DCP wrote: He was right to be concerned.  Consistent materialism seems to saw off the branch upon which the materialist sits while thinking.

and now Pearson:
But of course, Darwin’s own theory was itself a “conviction of man’s mind,” so he was cutting off the branch he himself was sitting on. In short, Darwinian naturalism is self-refuting.


This is getting disgusting. I can't even imagine the editorial nightmare DCP's book will be, once the editors start to realize just how much of his manuscript is unoriginal.
_Philo Sofee
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Re: Sawing off the branch on which it sits

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Lemmie
This is getting disgusting. I can't even imagine the editorial nightmare DCP's book will be, once the editors start to realize just how much of his manuscript is unoriginal.


Will they be able to even know? It will be interesting to be sure.
Dr CamNC4Me
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_Lemmie
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Re: Sawing off the branch on which it sits

Post by _Lemmie »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Lemmie
This is getting disgusting. I can't even imagine the editorial nightmare DCP's book will be, once the editors start to realize just how much of his manuscript is unoriginal.


Will they be able to even know? It will be interesting to be sure.

How could they not? If I can find multiple misappropriations using only Google and an occasional free lunch hour, than a full-time copy editor with all the resources of the industry at their disposal, who is tasked with due diligence and maintaining their employer's reputation, surely will. Of course, it also depends on who the publisher is.
_EAllusion
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Re: Sawing off the branch on which it sits

Post by _EAllusion »

For those that don't know, Nancy Pearcey is a young earth creationist who is offering a poorman's version of Plantinga's "Naturalism Defeated" or the "Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism." (Or you could say that Plantinga offers up a dressed up version of what Pearcey argues. It's effectively the same argument.)

Her shtick is strident presuppositionalism that relies on assertions in spots where more careful philosophers would go to the trouble of creating terrible arguments. One of her other favorite arguments is that belief in evolutionary biology undermines morality with a healthy reliance on "evolution teaches we are animals and therefore we ought to behave like animals." This led to this hilarious article by Pearcey that I can't believe is close to 20 years old:

https://world.wng.org/2000/04/the_birds_and_the_bees

Anyway, I remember getting into tifs with a certain someone who was very clear in following Intelligent Design rhetoric in arguing that ID isn't creationism and doesn't have anything to do with creationism. Oh, how he would attack me for arguing that ID is effectively a relabeling of creationism for legal and rhetorical purposes. And here we have that someone positively citing a young earth creationist who used to call her arguments creationism and publish in creationist publications one day just start calling those same arguments "Intelligent Design" and joining the the ID flagship organization the Discovery Institute as a fellow with expertise in "ID" based on those same arguments. Makes you think.
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