The Last Jedi **WARNING: SPOILERS ALLOWED**

[_Kevin Graham]

I put "**** SPOLIER ALERT****" in the opening post. I would think that anyone who really didn't want to see a spolier would see the movie before perusing the thread further. It is really hard to talk about this film in any meaningful way without discussing SOMETHING that's going to be a spolier for SOMEONE. The forum seemed disinterested at the time I posted, no one commented until Jack did two days later. Anyway, sorry bout dat.

[_Kevin Graham]

So why the F did Kylo wear a stupid mask to begin with? I get that Vader needed one to help him breath or what not, but Kylo Ren needed it to....?... to look cool? Getting rid of it just makes him so ... let's just say, less intimidating. Dude has a baby face who looks like he's always about to break out crying. Not exactly the heir apparent to Vader.

I also wasn't a fan of the way the force just seems to have a mind of its own now. Like it doesn't need to be accessed via some form of concentration by religious experts anymore. It just sporadically "awakens" and indiscriminately chooses whom it wants to occupy.

So what's up with the ole midi-chlorian narrative anyway? I remember in a previous thread years ago EA said that was just something we should all agree never happened. OK, so how else do we get around the fact that all of the episodes tell the same story about how the force is stronger with people depending on what's in their blood? (i.e. the Sywalker lineage)

[_EAllusion]

The OP asked us "if you have seen it, what do you think"? So I assumed spoilers were a-go on this thread.

I do find the individual movies strong, but the overall narrative rather disappointing. The first trilogy amounted to nothing and the Rebellion essentially accomplished nothing over the past ~30-40 years. Luke was training a whole 12 Jedi apprentices and they got killed or otherwise lured to the dark side, so he gave up on everything? Quit kind of early there, didn't you, Luke?

I was a huge fan of the Expanded Universe novels in junior high and high school though, and so many of those were so good, I've been trying not to compare the new movies to those too much.

This was my take in an earlier post. People forget, but the prequel films all were received somewhat positively when they came out, and those films are cancer. I think TLJ, which is getting glowing reviews, is going to have its reputation suffer over time. It's well made, and is a decent movie unto itself, but it doesn't connect to the larger story it is telling and and possibly ruins some of that larger story. I think episode 9 theoretically could clean this up, but JJ "play it safe" Abrams is directing and that's not exactly something he's good at.

I wasn't a huge fan of the EU and was worried that these films would just retread the EU. I'm a fan of the Knights of the Old Republic games, and while I love the kind of storytelling going on there, I prefer my Star Wars stories in film to carry the more mythical quality that requires the writing to hint at something deeper without actually revealing it. Both the EU and KotR go hard on the details of the space opera and as a result take away some of its grandeur. Obi Wan's brief mention of the clone wars is so much better than actually describing what the clone wars were.

[_EAllusion]

Rogue One is the best shot of all the Star Wars films - it's beautiful to look at - but everything about it is flat and underdeveloped. It simultaneously feels overlong and too slight. The characters have no weight.

[_Maksutov]

SHADES HAS NO CLASS!

NO CLASS.

;)

- Doc

Way to go, Shades!

[_MsJack]

I'm in the minority among Star Wars fans, but I didn't care for Rogue One at all. It wasn't bad; I just found it mundane and forgettable.

It's possible that TLJ won't age well; I'm not the best prognosticator. I do recall that I very much disliked the prequels when they came out and was baffled that the critics gave them such good reviews, so score one for me there.

This analysis gets to what I really liked about TLJ:

Perhaps that’s why The Last Jedi is such a jarring experience, one that feels specifically built to make audiences work through their feelings about this universe. Rian Johnson is unabashedly political and unafraid to slaughter the sacred cows. The First Order isn’t just a group of guys whose costumes provide cool cosplay opportunities – they are fascists, evil and cold and frightening. The Resistance isn’t a team of plucky heroes – they are a band of fighters who are specifically cast with diverse men and women to reflect the fears and frustrations of millennials who feel trapped and afraid in a world where resistance often feels futile (and who really wouldn’t mind tearing apart a casino city operated by the 1%). The Force isn’t just a cool excuse for heroes to lift rocks – it is something mystical and mysterious that cannot be easily explained and comprehended, something that even Luke Skywalker has a complex relationship with at this point.

. . .

The Force Awakens and Rogue One: A Star Wars Story want to please you. They want to hit familiar beats and remind you why you love Star Wars. They are so much fun. But The Last Jedi doesn’t want to remind you of anything. It doesn’t care about your relationship with Star Wars.

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-last-jedi-defense/

Come to think of it, Kylo Ren's manchild shtick couldn't be better timed, given the rise to power of a certain other manchild in real life.

I am nervous about Episode IX, if only because it will be difficult to have a satisfactory ending to the new trilogy without Carrie Fisher's participation. Again, I'll be in the minority, but I really wish they would just re-cast the role with someone who looks sufficiently like her, even if it's an unknown. Had something happened to Natalie Portman between Episodes II and III, they wouldn't have written her out or CGI'ed her or anything like that, they would have just re-cast Keira Knightley in the role and called it good. The same should be done here.

[_honorentheos]

This was my take in an earlier post. People forget, but the prequel films all were received somewhat positively when they came out, and those films are cancer.

I really don't remember the critical response to The Phantom Menace. I remember the anticipation was off the charts. But I do recall my own reaction which was very negative. I thought Attack of Clones benefited from being a step up from TPM, but only because of the battle scenes. I honestly don't remember the name of the third one. Haden Christensen and Natalie Portman were almost unwatchable in it, though. It played a role in my waiting a long time to watch The Force Awakens, and went to see it weeks after the premier because coworkers kept wanting to talk about it so I felt obligated so I could. I was pleasantly surprised. I heard terrible things about Rogue One going in, (CGI Tarken and Leah being top of that list) so maybe that played into my experience. But I loved it much more than I have any Star Wars movie since Empire. And I was young enough when Return of the Jedi came out to actually like Ewoks. So.

[_honorentheos]

Had something happened to Natalie Portman between Episodes II and III, they wouldn't have written her out or CGI'ed her or anything like that, they would have just re-cast Keira Knightley in the role and called it good. The same should be done here.

You know, this opens up a few pretty cool possibilities such as their jumping forward in the timeline to bring an older actress or Dumbledoring her with a contemporary. Not sure who either would be...

[_honorentheos]

But The Last Jedi doesn’t want to remind you of anything. It doesn’t care about your relationship with Star Wars.

This is the kind of quote that intrigues me...I'm waiting to watch it once I get off for the Holidays. This suggests it could surprise me in a good way.

[_Kevin Graham]

Rogue One is the best shot of all the Star Wars films - it's beautiful to look at - but everything about it is flat and underdeveloped. It simultaneously feels overlong and too slight. The characters have no weight.

You mean it didn't reignite Forrest Whittaker's career from his Oscar performance in Van Damme's Bloodsport?