The Last Jedi **WARNING: SPOILERS ALLOWED**

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

So, I'm at work MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, and I think I can put my finger on why I don't care for these films versus the original trilogy. For the record I'm not really a Star Wars fan.

I think the prequels were garbage and are virtually unwatchable. If anyone wants a GREAT breakdown of the prequels do yourself a favor and watch:

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/

If only George Lucas had listened to the nerds...

So, at the risk of sounding pretentious, I think the movies are Disney formula movies, if that makes any sense. I think it's a deliberate amalgamation of Disney Princess, memberberries, and basically hamburger cuisine. Business Trump's story so you get: Cool effects. Nostalgia. Disney adversity story starring Grrrrl. Hamburgers. Tasty. Safe. Predictable. Explosions.

$$$ CASH MONEY BABY $$$

Anyway. As a non-fan (I read one EU book when I was a kid), and someone, even as a kid, intuitively felt the story was going off the rails with the Ewoks guerrilla warfare story arc, I think I can unpack my feelings on the matter:

1) Star Wars was lightning in a bottle. It was just the right films at the right time. Nothing like it had been done before and man did the country lose its mind. Wonderful great stuff being a kid and looking forward to each movie. It felt like Christmas and Christmas Eve was years long. It was almost unbearable.

2) The original trilogy, especially the first one, is a pretty simple story and thus it's relatable. It's a space opera. It's Good vs Evil. It's a Western. It's a kid who undergoes a maturation process, not unlike how many of us were undergoing puberty, transitioning from kid to teen or teen to adult. Like I said. The movie was relatable for an era of people who didn't have the Internet and few had cable.

3) You can't make everyone happy. Star Wars is a victim of its own success. Cool visual effects and lightsabers going off every five minutes can't compensate for solid character development. If you introduce too many elements that you're attempting to mesh together it just becomes messy and shallow. Having 40 years of fandom and the expanded universe makes it difficult to repeat the success of the 70's and early 80's.

Anyway. That's my shallow casual moviegoer opinion. Check out the Red Letter Media videos I linked. Super funny and insightful.

- Doc

[_Water Dog]

I haven't seen it. Also haven't read a single comment due to fear of spoilers.

What I'll say is that The Force Awakens sucked, it was an abomination of biblical proportions. Lazy theme park writing. Intellectually offensive. Treating the audience like cheap hookers to be bent over by their corporate overlords. It has a Star Wars label on it, so give me your money, bitches. And if this needs to be explained, you're not a real Star Wars fan and almost certainly an idiot.

I mean come on. Another death star, just bigger. They still haven't figured out how to protect critical infrastructure like a shield generator. On and on, gee, I think I've seen this movie before.

And that's barely scratching the surface. The way Rey is pistol whipping Kylo Ren (Luke had to spend years training with Yoda before he could do anything), knows more about the Millennium Falcon than Hans Solo even though she's never even been in one before. Girl Power (TM), I guess. And then don't even get me started on Finn. These are not at all believable characters, they are absurd to point of satire. Rogue One was awesome. That's how you do a Star Wars movie. I have a feeling though that this one, targeting the broader audience, will be more theme park garbage.

The movie I'm really excited about is Ready Player One. I am hopeful Spielberg will be true to the book on that one. by the way, if you haven't read this book, get on it! If you were born in 80's, or at least lived through it at a reasonably young age, you'll love the book. Old school arcade and 80's pop culture mixed with futuristic post apocalyptic science fiction. Great stuff.

[_Xenophon]

I was a huge fan of the Expanded Universe novels in junior high and high school though, and so many of those were so good, I've been trying not to compare the new movies to those too much.

I think this is my primary problem as well. So much of the EU content was so good and I experienced it in my youth which probably added to my enjoyment of it (nostalgia and all that jazz). I understand why they had to scrap the content when Disney stepped in; it could be a very inconsistent product with huge disconnects from cannon, they wanted something fresh and there were too many cooks in the kitchen. That said, I don't think I'll ever get past them essentially rendering 80% of the old Wookieepedia "incorrect".

[_EAllusion]

Luke trained with Yoda for what appears to be a few days or, if you are generous with the passage of time, then several weeks. This is after the first movie occurred in which Luke succeeds where the rest of the rebel force fails in blowing up the death star using the Force - a mystical concept he barely knew of only days prior.

This is a notortious contrivance of the original writing that works because it's incredibly well edited space opera.

This thread seems to have developed its own genre of criticizing a half reboot half remake of the first film by misremembering that film.

[_Xenophon]

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Luke trained with Yoda for what appears to be a few days and, if you are generous with the passage of time, then several weeks. This is after the first movie occurred in which Luke succeeds where the rest of the rebel force fails in blowing up the death star using the Force - a mystical concept he barely knew of only days prior.

This is a notortious contrivance of the original writing that works because it's incredibly well edited space opera.

This thread seems to have developed its own genre of criticizing a half reboot half remake of the first film by misremembering that film.

Oh. Well. Look at Mr. “F” ing Perfect over here. If there's one thing we can count on is EA is always right, and EA can never be wrong. Hey, we got a damn ing JEDI MASTER EVERYONE!

God, you are such an insufferable up your own ass prick.

- Doc

[_Ceeboo]

Luke trained with Yoda for what appears to be a few days and, if you are generous with the passage of time, then several weeks. This is after the first movie occurred in which Luke succeeds where the rest of the rebel force fails in blowing up the death star using the Force - a mystical concept he barely knew of only days prior.

This is a notortious contrivance of the original writing that works because it's incredibly well edited space opera.

This thread seems to have developed its own genre of criticizing a half reboot half remake of the first film by misremembering that film.

Oh. Well. Look at Mr. ____ ing Perfect over here. If there's one thing we can count on is EAllusion is always right, and EAllusion can never be wrong. Hey, we got a ____ ing JEDI MASTER EVERYONE!

God, you are such an insufferable up your own ass prick.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

Sure. I'm a nitpicky perfectionist with impossible knowledge because I... *checks notes*

...remember the broad outline of the most popular film trilogy of all time.

[_Water Dog]

Wrong, EA. Several ways to tackle this depending on how nerdy you want to get. Just because something was depicted in 30 minutes of screen time doesn't imply it happened as quickly in real life.

Luke had been training with Obi Wan, he was self training while travelling, and then he had a lot of time with Yoda who's supposed to be the ultimate master who ran the Jedi school. He could have been with Yoda for months or years. We have no idea for sure. It "seems" kinda fast based on the pace of the movie, but we don't know. If you reference "cannon" material, like star wars books, it is suggested that a time dilation effect exists on Dagobah. Time is not experienced there the way way it is elsewhere. Moreover we don't know how long the millenium falcon's journey was.

Also keep in mind, this was the first movie and nobody expected it to really take off like it did. It was not meant to be a strictly accurate representation of all things to please nerds in 2017 arguing over timelines.

What we also know is he left sooner than Yoda wanted him to. And it's an important point - yoda didn't think he was ready. However sloppily, the movie made a point of showing Luke had no skills and needed to develop them. It was a central point in the film. And when fighting with Vader, Vader was not trying to kill him. He knew he was his son and was trying to convert him. Vader wasn't giving him full force. Like a dad wrestling with his baby boy.

Regardless of nitpicking timelines, the point is still that it was made a big deal that Luke needed to train. He was exposed to a series of mentors. Not just mentors, but best of the best mentors. And then he did have training. Rei doesn't know anything and she's kicking Kylo's ass, who has been intensely learning the dark arts and overthrew the Jedi School for crying out loud. He ran Luke off! And he IS trying to kill Rei. No fatherly wrestling games. And she's beating his ass like no big deal, "oops sorry," like some lady that hit your car while trying to park at the grocery store. Retarded.

I don't have a problem with a girl Jedi. There was a badass female character in Rogue One. They did it well. I just hate lazy writing. Effing stupid.

[_Kevin Graham]

Maybe she is just "THE ONE" like Neo in Matrix. Many before him tried to win battles against the agents, but only Neo was prophesied to do so. Clearly the movie attributes her success against the Sith as a matter of the force's strength with her, not her sexuality.