The Last Jedi **WARNING: SPOILERS ALLOWED**

[_MsJack]

Poe's opening sequence in TLJ is far and above the most ridiculous in this regard and should be pointed to as the prime example of it before anything else.

THANK YOU.

[_Xenophon]

THANK YOU.

I don't see how it can escape anyone. In penance for this ridiculous opening shot he has to spend nearly the rest of the movie being an abject failure that still must be saved by Rey, if that helps.

Some other thoughts I had concerned the physics of the Star Wars universe. I know that accuracy was never one of the strong suits of the series but it feels even more off since Disney's purchase (this may partially just be because there aren't a sea of writers to go back and create the apologetics for it). I was curious as to how the bombs fell out of the bombers without gravity (previous iterations of bombers still treated it as a fired projectile even if going "down)" or why running out of fuel was an issue in space when you were already outpacing the star destroyer chasing you (barring some 3rd party interference) shouldn't they have been able to outrun inevitably? I'll acknowledge that part of me worrying about and noticing these things may have been due to not being nearly as immersed in these as I had in previous titles.

[_Kevin Graham]

THANK YOU.

I don't see how it can escape anyone. In penance for this ridiculous opening shot he has to spend nearly the rest of the movie being an abject failure that still must be saved by Rey, if that helps.

Some other thoughts I had concerned the physics of the Star Wars universe. I know that accuracy was never one of the strong suits of the series but it feels even more off since Disney's purchase (this may partially just be because there aren't a sea of writers to go back and create the apologetics for it). I was curious as to how the bombs fell out of the bombers without gravity (previous iterations of bombers still treated it as a fired projectile even if going "down)" or why running out of fuel was an issue in space when you were already outpacing the star destroyer chasing you (barring some 3rd party interference) shouldn't they have been able to outrun inevitably? I'll acknowledge that part of me worrying about and noticing these things may have been due to not being nearly as immersed in these as I had in previous titles.

I just saw too many parallels with Empire Strikes back. The entire plan to save everyone with the master decoder crumbled in the end. Reminded me of the rescue attempt on Cloud City before Lando Calrissian revealed he was in cahoots with the Empire.

On the subject of physics, I agree and said the same thing about the bombs dropping in space. I was hoping to see some kind of boosters guiding the bombs but they were clearly "dropping." You could also argue that the physics of an X-Wing fighter is absurd. After shooting the final turret, Poe manages to stop on a dime and pull a 180 degree turn with nothing but rear boosters?

[_EAllusion]

The movie is filled with direct parallels to Empire. It doesn't do enough to deconstruct them, so it naturally will feel partially derivative.

I have zero problem with the space battles being physically inaccurate. You just have to accept 'em as the WW II naval battles they are. The only thing that seemed off was the kamikaze attack. If that's physically possible to do, then it would be part of the general weapon design. That was a writing flub to mine some emotion. You just know there's going to be a book with some eye roll techno babble explanation to account for it.

[_Xenophon]

The movie is filled with direct parallels to Empire. It doesn't do enough to deconstruct them, so it naturally will feel partially derivative.

I have zero problem with the space battles being physically inaccurate. You just have to accept 'em as the WW II naval battles they are. The only thing that seemed off was the kamikaze attack. If that's physically possible to do, then it would be part of the general weapon design. That was a writing flub to mine some emotion.

To clarify it wasn't so much that the physics parts bothered me, per se. It was just an indicator to me that I was less absorbed by the story that I was even able to notice those kinds of things. Typically I'm able to totally ignore those kinds of fictional quirks but they stood out to me more than usual.

The kamikaze bit definitely opened up a can of worms, that I assume will never be addressed. You can maybe write it off by saying it only worked because Hux's hubris prevented him from responding accordingly... but that is a stretch. Given how mass and acceleration work at those speeds you figured you could just slap a hyperdrive onto some rocks and hurl them at the enemy.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

... you figured you could just slap a hyperdrive onto some rocks and hurl them at the enemy.

crap, man. Just fly the hyperdrives themselves into anything. You'd think the Star Wars universe would've figured this out millennia ago.

- Doc

[_honorentheos]

I'm quite late to the thread (apart from a quick meme) as I had been unable to see the movie and didn't want it ruined.

I generally agree that the "over the top" ability of Star Wars heroes to defy odds is a pretty central theme in every movie (it is a space opera for God's sake) and to call out Rey as if she is different in this regard reads as odd, at best. Poe's opening sequence in TLJ is far and above the most ridiculous in this regard and should be pointed to as the prime example of it before anything else.

I too think Luke's response to Ben turning makes little sense given the context of the other movies. This is my Expanded Universe bias talking but Luke often sought isolation but was never one to run from the fight. Although he would sometimes disappear he always came back when the action started and you never had to go looking for him. That said, his parts in the movie are truly some of its better parts. Seconded to the idea of more force stuff, less casino.

With all that in mind, I find that I have disliked the Force Awakens and The Last Jedi as continuations of the original trilogy but I think they are enjoyable movies when viewed in a sort of vacuum and taken just at the sci-fi action movies they have become. I'm also pleased that it appears some of the mysticism that was the Star Wars of my youth has been able to successfully be repackaged and shared with a new set of kids.

Assuming we can talk spoilers like normal in this thread now despite the title since we seem to be doing so? To be safe, and for Shades, SPOILERS!!!

Begin Spoiler Gap Making
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Good Enough Spoiler Gap

The biggest issue I had with The Last Jedi was the humor. This began with the opening sequence when Po hails Hux on the star destroyer that is waiting to blast the rebellion and proceeds to do a scene out of Space Balls to buy time. It put me off for the majority of the movie as every joke afterward felt forced or out of place. It had all the feel of the prequels because of that which wasn't entirely fair to the movie as a whole...but once it went down that path it failed to right itself. I didn't hate the movie, but I was put off by this. I also thought the way the movie used the various planet environments and fauna was closer to the prequels than it was to the more integrated feel of A New Hope, Empire, or Rogue One. The scenes at the casino, with the yacht sailing off the waterfall, transitioning to an alien blue blood complaining about Finn and Rose having ditched their ship on the beach had the feel of the prequels rather than the immersive quality Star Wars worlds can achieve at their best.

That said, there were scenes in the movie I loved. Despite the deserved criticism of the use of a hyper jump as a kamikaze attack, that scene was beautiful reminding me of the best of Japanese anime. The choice to shoot it in silence was perfect, in my opinion. I appreciated the last quarter of the movie much more than the first three quarters. Luke's reunion with Leia was done so well, and I have to imagine Carrie Fisher added the line, "I changed my hair" to it because it seemed so true to her as a person. I don't think I'd be the only one who watched the movie without separating Carrie from Leia, just as it was Mark Hamill/Luke throughout as well. The, "See ya 'round, kid" line given to Kylo Ren as Skywalker's last bit of dialog before merging with the force was much more something I could see Hamill saying.

[_Some Schmo]

Finally saw it today - it was awesome. The theater was totally empty. I sat in the dead middle of the room and had the place to myself. Gotta love a matinee as the kids are going back to school.

Anyway, yeah, I was certainly entertained by this outing. The only time I looked at my watch was near the end (and only because I was wondering how much longer I'd have to wait to pee).

My only complaint is that it has an unbelievably powerful lead female, and I'm not sure I like powerful women in my fantasy. I like my women soft and supple, and easily manipulated. I've finally decided to admit it on this here forum, so we can have a healthy discussion about it.

But I haven't read this thread. What's it about?

[_Some Schmo]

Honestly though, while I did enjoy this, there was something about this episode that felt like a pretty large departure from the history we've come to understand. I haven't read any of Mark Hamill's comments on Luke's character turn, but if they're negative, I guess I agree with that basic sentiment. It's my biggest complaint. I'd have expected he would have some kind of personal burden for being "the last Jedi" but to want to try to burn an order he was never really a true part of (you know, seeing it in its heyday) doesn't feel all that correct to me. But I'm not that invested in the lore for it to bother me much. If this is what they thought they needed to do to advance the story... ok.

I did enjoy Luke's final battle with Ben, though. Him brushing off his robe after getting pegged with hundreds of rounds was a nice touch, given what was really happening.

I like Rey's character, and the idea that she's the key to the next phase of the struggle in that old galaxy. She's got charisma.

So ya know, if you like watching awesome special effects and about as cool looking space war fantasy as available today, seems worth it to me.

[_Some Schmo]

Sure. I'm a nitpicky perfectionist with impossible knowledge because I... *checks notes*

...remember the broad outline of the most popular film trilogy of all time.

by the way, this actually made me LOL.