Discussion of the ''DCP / plagiarism'' thread

[_Jesse Pinkman]

My entire frustration with this thread is the following:

Everyone has been doggedly documenting examples of Dan’s plagiarism, but to what end?

What is it that everyone who has participated on this thread hopes to gain? Do you want Dan to resign? Is that it?

Do you want to see him fired? If so, why hasn’t anyone formally reported him?

The point of this exercise is what, exactly?

[_Jersey Girl]

My entire frustration with this thread is the following:

Everyone has been doggedly documenting examples of Dan’s plagiarism, but to what end?

They're documenting "DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism."

What is it that everyone who has participated on this thread hopes to gain? Do you want Dan to resign? Is that it?

They're documenting "DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism."

Do you want to see him fired? If so, why hasn’t anyone formally reported him?

They're documenting "DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism."

The point of this exercise is what, exactly?

They're documenting "DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism."

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Since you were kind enough to go on the record and state that you wouldn't want to employ a plagiarizer I'll answer your questions.

NOTE: I ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF. I have no idea what the motivations are for others.

My entire frustration with this thread is the following:

Everyone has been doggedly documenting examples of Dan’s plagiarism, but to what end?

Well. For me, at first I was thrilled to see that others were seeing what I saw ten years ago. That Mr. Peterson would routinely lift other people's work, re-word it a bit, and then pass it off as his own. It was nice to see people, nay, academics, parse it out and not let him off the hook. To what end? I'd like him to go back to his publications where he stole other people's work and give proper attribution.

What is it that everyone who has participated on this thread hopes to gain? Do you want Dan to resign? Is that it?

I'd like him to correct his thievery.

Do you want to see him fired? If so, why hasn’t anyone formally reported him?

If I didn't know any better, and if I were a betting man, I'd wager you're agitating in the hopes, somewhere in your heart or in the back of your mind, that someone does this. I think you like the drama.

The point of this exercise is what, exactly?

To get him to quit stealing other people's work?

Tell you what, JP. Let's just put our cards on the table. If you challenge me to send notes to all the major Utah publications, to BYU, and to any other watchdog organizations I will. All you have to say is yes.

- Doc

[_Ceeboo]

Sup Jesse!

What is it that everyone who has participated on this thread hopes to gain?

I don't hope to gain anything.

I just think this entire thread is a little bit more interesting than reading about the cement on Night Lion's front porch.
Not much more interesting....A little bit more interesting.


Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Jesse Pinkman]

Since you were kind enough to go on the record and state that you wouldn't want to employ a plagiarizer I'll answer your questions.

NOTE: I ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF. I have no idea what the motivations are for others.

My entire frustration with this thread is the following:

Everyone has been doggedly documenting examples of Dan’s plagiarism, but to what end?

Well. For me, at first I was thrilled to see that others were seeing what I saw ten years ago. That Mr. Peterson would routinely lift other people's work, re-word it a bit, and then pass it off as his own. It was nice to see people, nay, academics, parse it out and not let him off the hook. To what end? I'd like him to go back to his publications where he stole other people's work and give proper attribution.

What is it that everyone who has participated on this thread hopes to gain? Do you want Dan to resign? Is that it?

I'd like him to correct his thievery.

Do you want to see him fired? If so, why hasn’t anyone formally reported him?

If I didn't know any better, and if I were a betting man, I'd wager you're agitating in the hopes, somewhere in your heart or in the back of your mind, that someone does this. I think you like the drama.

The point of this exercise is what, exactly?

To get him to quit stealing other people's work?

Tell you what, JP. Let's just put our cards on the table. If you challenge me to send notes to all the major Utah publications, to BYU, and to any other watchdog organizations I will. All you have to say is yes.

- Doc

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. First of all, no, I don’t like the drama. I’m just sick of being on edge wondering if the reporting is what is going to actually happen. I guess a part of me is like, “enough already. If it’s going to happen, then just do it.” The suspense is maddening.

No, Doc, I would prefer that you not report this. I think that DCP is going to do his best to go back through and attribute all of the authors. That is what you ultimately want to see. That is what I would like to see as well. I think it will take some time for him to go through all of his writings and take care of this, but I would like to see him allowed to make a good faith effort to do that.

[_Jersey Girl]

Sup Jesse!

What is it that everyone who has participated on this thread hopes to gain?

I don't hope to gain anything.

I just think this entire thread is a little bit more interesting than reading about the cement on Night Lion's front porch.
Not much more interesting....A little bit more interesting.


Peace,
Ceeboo

Forgive me, I would have replied sooner but I just got out of the sink. (The crap I do in life, I swear) I originally hoped to gain nothing. I did however, gain a certain amount of insight into non-topical issues.

[_Res Ipsa]

My entire frustration with this thread is the following:

Everyone has been doggedly documenting examples of Dan’s plagiarism, but to what end?

What is it that everyone who has participated on this thread hopes to gain? Do you want Dan to resign? Is that it?

Do you want to see him fired? If so, why hasn’t anyone formally reported him?

The point of this exercise is what, exactly?

I've participated, so I'll answer. I don't hope to gain anything. There's no gain to be had here for me. Peterson means no more to me than any other professor at any other university.

My personal opinion is that he should acknowledge the nature and extent of his plagiarism, publicly apologize to those whose words and ideas he has passed off as his own, and resign his academic position, and retire from academia. I think he should also confess his conduct to his bishop for consideration of disciplinary authority, just as if he had stolen his neighbor's ox rather than his words and ideas. That would be the right thing to do.

My personal opinion is that his employer should review the evidence of plagiarism, review all of his published works for evidence of plagiarism, and take whatever action is appropriate given their contractual relationship with him and whatever code of conduct they hold their faculty to.

Each person's reasons for not reporting him at this point in time may differ. I haven't because I consider plagiarism a serious charge that should be treated seriously. What we have right now is a long bulletin board thread. Before I ever chose to inform a publication or employer of alleged plagiarism, I'd want to review all of the evidence myself and conduct my own review of plagiarism standards and specific cases. I'd then want to organize all the material into something that looks like a legal brief that lays out all the evidence to support an accusation of plagiarism. I'd then want to put that in a drawer for a week or so and then come back to it to flyspeck it and make sure that the brief sufficiently supported the accusation. Because the evidence was originally developed and made public in a forum that would be considered hostile to Peterson, I'd want to make sure all the i's were dotted, the t's were crossed, and all the citations and quotes were squeaky clean before sending the document off. If I'm gong to take on a professor at a major university, I'm going expect a helluva fight, and I'm not going to risk a libel suit based on shoddy work product. So my answer is, what appears in this thread is not ready for prime time, and it would take a ton of work to get it ready.

The point of this exercise is fact-gathering and discussing. I know that waiting for the other shoe to drop is killing you, but if anyone chooses to drop the shoe, I wouldn't expect it to happen soon. Not if it's done properly.

At this point, if there is anyone seriously considering pursuing this with a publisher or employer, I suggest doing so off of this board through a private forum. Y'all have given Peterson plenty of notice of the problem and your opinions of it. He has plenty of opportunity to do the right thing. Any actual planning, preparation of materials, etc. should not be done here.

[_Lemmie]

My personal opinion is that his employer should review the evidence of plagiarism, review all of his published works for evidence of plagiarism, and take whatever action is appropriate given their contractual relationship with him and whatever code of conduct they hold their faculty to.

couldn't agree more.

If I'm going to take on a professor at a major university, I'm going expect a helluva fight, and I'm not going to risk a libel suit based on shoddy work product.

My only disagreement with your post is here. Based on my experience, once a university is aware of an issue such as this and has determined it needs to be looked into, it becomes an internal investigation. There would be no "fight," as such, for an outsider to engage in, nor would there be a need for outside "work product" as a University would do their own research into the situation; or at the very least rigorously confirm for themselves, using public records, the results of the research others have done. As I said, that is just my opinion. I don't know how BYU specifically operates. The DesNews I would expect to operate using standard journalistic policies regarding plagiarism.

The point of this exercise is fact-gathering and discussing.

I had slightly more specific reasons as the OP, but yes, that describes quite well the thread.

[_Jersey Girl]

Based on my experience, once a university is aware of an issue such as this and has determined it needs to be looked into, it becomes an internal investigation. There would be no "fight," as such, for an outsider to engage in, nor would there be a need for outside "work product" as a University would do their own research into the situation; or at the very least rigorously confirm for themselves, using public records, the results of the research others have done.

Question. Would a university appoint a panel for this or is it assigned to a specific department that conducts investigations?

Asking out of curiosity.

[_Lemmie]

Based on my experience, once a university is aware of an issue such as this and has determined it needs to be looked into, it becomes an internal investigation. There would be no "fight," as such, for an outsider to engage in, nor would there be a need for outside "work product" as a University would do their own research into the situation; or at the very least rigorously confirm for themselves, using public records, the results of the research others have done.

Question. Would a university appoint a panel for this or is it assigned to a specific department that conducts investigations?

Asking out of curiosity.

For a students there would most likely be a standing committee for individual schools or programs within a university; for a faculty member? I don't know. In the 1998 case of a professor caught plagiarizing at BYU, this was reported:

Jim Gordon, BYU associate academic vice president, would not disclose the particulars of the disciplinary measures used with Van Orden, but he did refer to BYU’s official policy on handling plagiarism by students or professors.

The policy allows BYU to reprimand the offender orally or in writing, require the work affected by the dishonesty to be redone, dismiss the offender from the university, or to put the offender on probation or suspension.

http://universe.BYU.edu/1998/02/27/byu- ... lagiarism/