EAllusion wrote:Ansari's behavior was overly aggressive, manipulative, and generally piggish.
and he is the victim of a false accusation. Why blame the victim? What happen with the "don't blame the victim" philosophy? Sounds like "she got raped because of the way she dressed"
Please explain EAllusion, why the double standard?
EAllusion wrote:Ansari's behavior was overly aggressive, manipulative, and generally piggish.
and he is the victim of a false accusation. Why blame the victim? What happen with the "don't blame the victim" philosophy? Sounds like "she got raped because of the way she dressed"
Please explain EAllusion, why the double standard?
How am I blaming the victim? You choose to link and endorse an article that misleadingly downplayed his behavior, so it became necessary to point out he did not behave in a proper way. I simultaneously pointed out that the described events do not constitute sexual assault and criticized those that characterize it that way.
If you threw a beer bottle at someone and gashed their head, were accused in the press of attempted murder, and had people defending you by saying you behaved like a perfect gentleman the entire night, we'd have some clarifying to do.
EAllusion wrote:How am I blaming the victim? You choose to link and endorse an article that misleadingly downplayed his behavior, so it became necessary to point out he did not behave in a kosher way. I simultaneously pointed out that the described events do not constitute sexual assault and criticized those that characterize it that way.
So if the events "do not constitute sexual assault" then it means Aziz is a victim of a false accusation and you are blaming the victim for the way he behaved.
You can get a life sentence for sexual assault, so in my view false accusations are not acceptable, no excuses. Wait, Aziz could get a life sentence known as a ruined career and reputation.
Sexual assault is a very serious accusation. Before accusing him of sexual assault the woman should have said "No" from the beginning. So even if Aziz doesn't go to jail, it's bull*** because his reputation is now ruined
The vast bulk of the reaction has been pushback against the claim of sexual assault. To the extent his reputation is being ruined, it's that his unethical pushiness with sexual relationships is the issue. You appear to have just assumed he's been found guilty in the court of public opinion even though that doesn't appear to have happened.
False allegations are bad, but you don't need to make up an outcome that isn't even happening. If you want to instead argue that Ansari's private jerkish behavior is not something that is appropriate to run to the press with, I agree it's a borderline case. This is not an example of "another celebrity is being credibly accused of sexually harassing or assaulting women." It's more akin to "anti-gay politician found cheating on his wife with a rent-boy." It's newsworthy because of what he's known for, but it's Ok to be a bit squeamish due to it normally being a private matter if someone is bad at relationships. Of course, the press covering celebrity relationships isn't anything new.
DoubtingThomas wrote:[ So if the events "do not constitute sexual assault" then it means Aziz is a victim of a false accusation and you are blaming the victim for the way he behaved.
You can get a life sentence for sexual assault, so in my view false accusations are not acceptable, no excuses. Wait, Aziz could get a life sentence known as a ruined career and reputation.
I'm not blaming the victim. It doesn't sound like you quite understand what victim-blaming is. I'm not saying that Aziz brought a false allegation on himself through his provocative behavior so he is to blame for it. I'm not saying he should've avoided being manipulative and pushy in trying to get laid because that's the sort of thing that can get you a rape allegation. I'm saying that's hurtful behavior that people should avoid. There is no analogy to "dressing sexy" with that. I'm saying that Aziz behaved inappropriately as a response to people, you by proxy for example, who wish to downplay that for whatever reason.
EAllusion wrote:The vast bulk of the reaction has been pushback against the claim of sexual assault. To the extent his reputation is being ruined, it's that his unethical pushiness with sexual relationships is the issue.
His behavior is not relevant to the false accusation of sexual assault, would you agree?
EAllusion wrote:You appear to have just assumed he's been found guilty in the court of public opinion even though that doesn't appear to have happened.
I hope you are right about Aziz not losing his reputation, but not all the falsely accused are as lucky. Just a reminder many feminists still think Aziz is guilty of sexual assault.
EAllusion wrote: This is not an example of "another celebrity is being credibly accused of sexually harassing or assaulting women." It's more akin to "anti-gay politician found cheating on his wife with a rent-boy." It's newsworthy because of what he's known for, but it's Ok to be a bit squeamish due to it normally being a private matter if someone is bad at relationships.
Not the point, it could have gone horribly wrong for Aziz. Imagine if the report didn't have the details (as many reports lack details), we would all be assuming he was guilty of sexual assault.
EAllusion wrote: I'm saying that Aziz behaved inappropriately as a response to people, you by proxy for example, who wish to downplay that for whatever reason.
Why not point to the accusation as being highly inappropriate? I am not downplaying anything, I just don't think his behavior is relevant to false accusations. His behavior is a totally separate issue.
I hope you are right about Aziz not losing his reputation, but not all the falsely accused are as lucky. Just a reminder many feminists still think Aziz is guilty of sexual assault.
Oh yeah? Got a survey or something you've read? Where's the word "many" coming from?
Imagine if the report didn't have the details (as many reports lack details), we would all be assuming he was guilty of sexual assault.
I guess you should do a better job of withholding judgement in absence of evidence and not speaking for others.
EAllusion wrote:There is no analogy to "dressing sexy" with that. I'm saying that Aziz behaved inappropriately as a response to people, you by proxy for example, who wish to downplay that for whatever reason.
Even according to feminist @$$ kissing CNN, "For example: Sexual assault and rape are never the victim's fault. But we cannot indiscriminately start destroying careers over consensual sexual activity, which based on her account is what this case appears to be. When we do that, we trivialize the brave victims who are coming forward about actual sex crimes...We should think long and hard before asking men to see inside our hearts and minds to divine our true feelings."" http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/opinions/ ... index.html
Last edited by Guest on Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
EAllusion wrote: I'm saying that Aziz behaved inappropriately as a response to people, you by proxy for example, who wish to downplay that for whatever reason.
Why not point to the accusation as being highly inappropriate? I am not downplaying anything, I just don't think his behavior is relevant to false accusations. His behavior is a totally separate issue.
You don't understand why someone might want to respond to the links you pitch? Bari Weiss probably should've added a paragraph about the ambiguities of enduring improper pressures and why people do it, something you've linked before mind you, rather than just emphasizing the need to draw a clear verbal line and leave. This just wasn't "bad sex" or a "lousy date." Ansari was violative in a way that is not cool. It's not assault, but it's also toxic behavior that we'd ideally prefer people knock off. That's all.
We can hold two thoughts in our mind at the same time. Saying this isn't victim blaming.