Jersey Girl wrote: I figured this thread could use at least one woman's perspective. When I wrote this:
That's exactly what happened. That's all that happened. There's no reason to over-analyze it. There's no reason to lay blame solely at the man's feet. They both played their part in this temporary relationship.
I could tick off a list of where she naïvely went wrong. Then, I'd be accused of victim blaming and shaming because that's how some folks roll around here.
She went wrong from the start. She sent out the signals and he caught them. She set the tone.
It's a damn shame that folks can't tell the straight up truth.
Thanks Jersey Girl
Listen I read her account start to finish. She was at a party with a date, and by her own words drinking and "tipsy". She got all sorts of starstruck, basically pursued Aziz's attention and she got it. She gave a stranger her phone number. She gave Aziz enough of an idea of what she was about from the get go. He believed her and called her for a date. He took the ball and ran with it. She gave him mixed signals about what she did/didn't want to do that night.
If a guy wants to put his fingers in your mouth, unless he's got a gun to your head, a fist in close proxmity of your face, or has trapped you, no one can make you open your mouth repeatedly and let im put his fingers in it.
Same thing with all the rest of what took place. It was a game of now she does, now she doesn't.
Women show men how they want to be treated. She didn't like that he was a jerk to her. She went public to exact revenge on him and embarrass him for the jerk that he was.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Jersey Girl wrote:. She gave him mixed signals about what she did/didn't want to do that night.
If a guy wants to put his fingers in your mouth, unless he's got a gun to your head, a fist in close proxmity of your face, or has trapped you, no one can make you open your mouth repeatedly and let im put his fingers in it.
Same thing with all the rest of what took place. It was a game of now she does, now she doesn't.
I have a feeling she was unsure, but regretted it later.
Doc argues that if it is OK for women to have sexual fantasies about being raped, then it is OK for him to fantasize about raping people. And while that logic doesn't quite follow, yeah, it's fine as pure fantasy.
Doc's reaction to that is that's crazy. The logical implication is that Doc thinks there is something morally wrong with women fantasizing about unwilling sex.
DoubtingThomas wrote:I have a feeling she was unsure, but regretted it later.
That's very likely the case. We only know what she wanted us to know. One thing that bother's me is that when he called her again, she let him know that she wasn't on board with his behavior. I believe he apologized. That seems like a fair exchange between two adults.
What she could have done is ask for help determining whether or not that was sexual misconduct, abuse, harrassment, or assault. I don't think she did that.
As it stands, she made herself look as bad as he looked. We are imperfect human beings.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
EAllusion wrote:Doc argues that if it is OK for women to have sexual fantasies about being raped, then it is OK for him to fantasize about raping people. And while that logic doesn't quite follow, yeah, it's fine as pure fantasy.
Doc's reaction to that is that's crazy. The logical implication is that Doc thinks there is something morally wrong with women fantasizing about unwilling sex.
Who exactly was this written for? The teeming masses or some specific poster.
Here's a good idea.
ASK him instead of assuming that you know what he thinks and why he thinks it, what the logical implication is, etc. You're not always on the mark, EA.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
EAllusion wrote:Doc argues that if it is OK for women to have sexual fantasies about being raped, then it is OK for him to fantasize about raping people. And while that logic doesn't quite follow, yeah, it's fine as pure fantasy.
Doc's reaction to that is that's crazy. The logical implication is that Doc thinks there is something morally wrong with women fantasizing about unwilling sex.
Who exactly was this written for? The teeming masses or some specific poster.
Here's a good idea.
ASK him instead of assuming that you know what he thinks and why he thinks it, what the logical implication is, etc. You're not always on the mark, EA.
He already wrote what he thinks. I am spelling it out. I'm not engaging in interpretive work here. I'm writing the final step in all cats are mammals, whiskers is a cat, therefore...
Then you come along and tell me to ask him if he thinks whiskers is a mammal. He already told us. I see no reason to offer an opportunity for self-contradiction.
DoubtingThomas wrote:I have a feeling she was unsure, but regretted it later.
That's very likely the case. We only know what she wanted us to know. One thing that bother's me is that when he called her again, she let him know that she wasn't on board with his behavior. I believe he apologized. That seems like a fair exchange between two adults.
What she could have done is ask for help determining whether or not that was sexual misconduct, abuse, harrassment, or assault. I don't think she did that.
As it stands, she made herself look as bad as he looked. We are imperfect human beings.
You want a person who believes they were sexually violated to ask the person they see as the violater to help them determine if they were in the wrong?
The description of the events is pretty clear about her trying to rebuff him, but being unwilling to just leave until she did. That's not the profile of someone who is unsure and only views it poorly in retrospect. That's the profile of someone feeling trepidation about giving a hard no in order to persevere a relationship.
Until she decided to call him out anonymously for assualt, this was just a story about her having a date with a pushy dick who happens to be famous. It's wildly inappropriate to think she should ask him to work out if him repeatedly trying to wear down her rejections constitutes misconduct. If she needs to work that out, it's with friends, family, and professionals.
