I can't hear you.

[_DoubtingThomas]

Hey, but I am a full supporter of the Free The Nipple movement.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

News are reporting "Women's March in Orlando to urge women to run for office, organizers say".

Why only to run for office? Why don't feminists also urge women to study science and engineering? We need more women as scientists and engineers. For me science and engineering are more important than running for office. In all honesty what a sexist agenda from the feminists, all they care about is women ruling over men.

I'd like to see more women get into plumbing, trash collection, construction, baggage handling, and trucking.

- Doc

[Guest]

I think one of the reason the marches were unfocused is that there are so many different issues. One year ago, the whole #MeToo movement did not exist. How do you integrate that tectonic shift in both awareness and politics into the current political climate? We have the President and the Porn Star, the Government Shutdown, the President's opposition to abortion rights, comments about immigrants from Haiti and Africa.So I think it is correct to say that a lot of different people were there for different reasons. One of the nicest signs I saw said

Stop the Kakistocracy.

Which is accurate, succinct and erudite. I told the lady holding the sign that our President knew all the best words.

As somebody who first marched over 50 years ago (and marched on Saturday) I can tell you the dynamic of most political marches is that the fringe groups are desperate to use the audience to be their moment in the sun. Consequently rallies usually end up with a interminable list of speakers from every disenfranchised group looking for their 5 minutes in front of several thousand people. I assume the same dynamic would be at play at right wing rallies. For the best possible experience, I recommend getting to any political rally as the speeches end and the march begins.

Even when the march begins, a lot of the largest, shouty-est signs are from the groups who are desperate for self-publicity. I would agree that there were a lot of grievances protested and that the rally I attended in San Francisco showed a lot of different signs about a lot of different issues. Quite frankly, a few of the signs were designed to make members of the human race with members feel a tad uncomfortable, most of which were along the lines of 'if it has a penis, run away'. I would say south of 5% expressed that type of sentiment.

The rally becomes important, not for the one important issue presented, but that all of these issues would be part of a blue wave in 2018. One thing I would say was that the women at the rally had different issues, but none of them expressed support for the GOP. The President is perceived as an oppressor of women, and his policies are perceived as being in opposition to women's rights, and most of the GOP is considered his willing partner in all of this.

So I would say one of the great commonalities of the messages was that a great deal of women in this country have been activated because of the #MeToo movement, and they are confronting a President whose personal behavior with women has been less than gentlemanly. The President's and the GOP's policies with respect to health care and reproductive rights they oppose vehemently, and they will be actively working to unseat the President's supporters in November.

Or, you know, celebrate the President's accomplishments.

[_DoubtingThomas]

I'd like to see more women get into plumbing, trash collection, construction, baggage handling, and trucking.

- Doc

You know I don't believe women should work in "plumbing, trash collection, construction, baggage handling". Those jobs are for men and no one is going to encourage women to have those jobs, not even femenists.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I'd like to see more women get into plumbing, trash collection, construction, baggage handling, and trucking.

- Doc

You know I don't believe women should work in "plumbing, trash collection, construction, baggage handling". Those jobs are for men and no one is going to encourage women to have those jobs, not even femenists.

Welp. There you go.

- Doc

[_DoubtingThomas]

The rally becomes important, not for the one important issue presented, but that all of these issues would be part of a blue wave in 2018. One thing I would say was that the women at the rally had different issues, but none of them expressed support for the GOP. The President is perceived as an oppressor of women, and his policies are perceived as being in opposition to women's rights, and most of the GOP is considered his willing partner in all of this.

So I would say one of the great commonalities of the messages was that a great deal of women in this country have been activated because of the #MeToo movement, and they are confronting a President whose personal behavior with women has been less than gentlemanly. The President's and the GOP's policies with respect to health care and reproductive rights they oppose vehemently, and they will be actively working to unseat the President's supporters in November.

Hopefully you are right! The Republican party needs sink, but feminist didn't stop Trump in 2016. Not sure if the MeToo is going to be enough in 2018 and 2020.

One big mistake the Democrats are making is forgetting about white men, and that is the reason why Hillary lost in 2016. Hopefully the Democratic party is not all just about women in 2018 and 2020 elections.

[_EAllusion]

This is essentially the anti-feminist equivalent of when racists criticize civil rights protests by complaining that they should be focusing on black on black crime in Chicago.

Is it wrong to disagree with the feminist movements? There are many intellectuals that disagree with it, including atheists. I am very skeptical of the feminist movement because of it's nonsensical accusations such as the gender wage gap or "rape culture". According to politifact the gender wage gap claim is nonsense, in fact I would argue that female waitresses make more money than males. According to fact checkers the rape culture accusation (1 in 4 women) is just a myth. So yea I am very skeptical of the feminists movement because women already have the same rights as men, we are no longer in the 1930s.

Listen, I mostly hear about the feminists movements trying to get more women to office. But I never hear about feminists campaigns to encourage women to go for science and engineering. You know, I was a Bernie Sanders volunteer. I knocked doors for Sanders, and we knocked the doors of potential Democratic primary voters. As a group we realized that many were just voting for Clinton because she was a woman, even the girls in our group could see that.

It's possible to both have a political movement focused on things like increasing female representation in government and, at other times, encourage greater female participation in STEM fields.

Well, I hope I hear about campaigns encouraging female participation in STEM fields. We need more women in office.

Female representation in STEM fields is a major issue with all sorts of political and social activism around it. I thought you were just referring to specific Women's March events.

Your complaints about feminists have nothing to do with the point I was making. I was drawing a specific parallel between the argument you made and another that operates on the same logic. Moreover, feminism isn't a monolith. It's a related group of intellectual and social movements surrounding women's equal worth and opportunity in all aspects of society. Feminists disagree with one another all the time while still being feminists.

On an aside, you're mistaken about wage gap issues and Politifact. Summarizing briefly, Politifact criticized using a specific wage gap number when it was said to compare men and women in the same position when that number was general wage disparity. That's all. This does not mean there aren't real wage gaps between men and women in comparable jobs - there are - nor does it mean that men and women have wage disparities because of social value assigned to jobs associated with each gender. Politifact didn't call either of those a myth, which is a good thing as that would undermine Politifact's so-so crediblity. Some of the wage gaps can reduce into differences in behavior between men and women, most notably the fact that women tend to take off more time for child rearing than men do. Even then a small wage gap persists and explaining the gap doesn't make it less real.

[_DoubtingThomas]

This does not mean there aren't real wage gaps between men and women in comparable jobs - there are - nor does it mean that men and women have wage disparities because of social value assigned to jobs associated with each gender. Politifact didn't call either of those a myth. Some of wage gaps can reduce into differences in behavior between men and women, most notably the fact that women tend to take off more time for child rearing than men do. Even then a small wage gap persists and explaining the gap doesn't make it less real.

Yes, time off and men go for higher paying jobs that are more stressful.

"The Census Bureau concluded that, in 2010, “the earnings of women who worked full time, year-round were 77 percent of that for men working full time, year-round.” But as we wrote in 2012, that’s the median (midpoint) for all women in all jobs, not for women doing “the same work” or even necessarily working the same number of hours. Furthermore, the raw gap for all women is not quite as large when looking at weekly earnings rather than yearly earnings...Hours worked is just one qualifier. Studies also have found that women are disproportionately represented in jobs that pay lower salaries...That’s what women earn for every dollar men make for all positions, not for doing “comparable work.”"
https://www.factcheck.org/2014/04/playi ... e-pay-gap/

But anyways, wouldn't you agree that female waitresses make more money than males?

Feminists disagree with one another all the time while still being feminists

So do Christians, but we should be more concerned about fundamentalists and loud young earth creationists.

Your complaints about feminists have nothing to do with the point I was making. I was drawing a specific parallel between the argument you made and another that operates on the same logic. Moreover, feminism isn't a monolith.

I don't feel it is a valid comparison because I never hear about movements encouraging more women in STEMS. It always has to be about political offices. I may be wrong, but so far I really haven't heard much.

[_Dr. Shades]

I'd like to see more women get into plumbing, trash collection, construction, baggage handling, and trucking.

- Doc

You know I don't believe women should work in "plumbing, trash collection, construction, baggage handling".

Why not? Please be specific.

Those jobs are for men. . .

Again, why? As before, please be specific.

[_EAllusion]

Yes, time off and men go for higher paying jobs that are more stressful.

Yes, women go disproportionately for the notoriously stress free jobs of teaching elementary kids and social work.

"The Census Bureau concluded that, in 2010, “the earnings of women who worked full time, year-round were 77 percent of that for men working full time, year-round.” But as we wrote in 2012, that’s the median (midpoint) for all women in all jobs, not for women doing “the same work” or even necessarily working the same number of hours. Furthermore, the raw gap for all women is not quite as large when looking at weekly earnings rather than yearly earnings...Hours worked is just one qualifier. Studies also have found that women are disproportionately represented in jobs that pay lower salaries...That’s what women earn for every dollar men make for all positions, not for doing “comparable work.”"
https://www.factcheck.org/2014/04/playi ... e-pay-gap/

Exactly. That's what I just described. All it is doing is saying Obama was wrong to say the 77 percent mark was for "the same work" rather than the overall gap. That doesn't mean there aren't gaps for the same work, nor does it mean the 77 percent mark is insignificant. In fact, Politifact rates Obama's comment as "mostly true" when offered in the correct context. To repurpose this to claim, "According to politifact the gender wage gap claim is nonsense" is just misleading

But anyways, wouldn't you agree that female waitresses make more money than males?

I don't know the answer to that. Do you have a study? I'm not sure why it matters. If it turns out there is a single job wherein the gender pay gap works in reverse does not mean the overall trend is the other way. Female pornstars make more than their male counterparts. I don't see why this renders wage gap concerns meaningless.

I don't feel it is a valid comparison because I never hear about movements encouraging more women in STEMS. It always has to be about political offices. I may be wrong, but so far I really haven't heard much.

Have you tried googling for 5 seconds?