Screwed?

[_Quasimodo]

It's no longer amusing (if it ever was). The U.S. is in serious danger today of losing it's rule of law and thus, it's Democracy. Democracy cannot exist without the rule of law. Will this country become a dictatorship? How can this be prevented?

[_Dr. Shades]

It's no longer amusing (if it ever was). The U.S. is in serious danger today of losing it's rule of law and thus, it's Democracy.

When you say "serious danger," what's your evidence for that statement?

[_MeDotOrg]

I don't think we are there yet, but there is a road that could end up with the executive branch trying to run the FBI as a political wing of the White House, and that scares the crap out of me.

Devin Nunez has been specifically cautioned by the Justice Department to submit the memo he wants to release for vetting on National Security grounds. Nunez has refused. As far as I know, this is the first time this has happened in United States history.

So he will release his own memo, which is based a classified documents that most people have not seen, so we are totally dependent upon Devin Nunez for the veracity of this memo. Dollars to donuts says that this memo will be used for the justification for firing Rosenstein.

One of the things Republicans are so upset about is that Rosenstein routinely approved surveillance of Carter Page, who worked with Trump. But people should understand where the original surveillance of Page started. A Russian agent was under surveillance by the CIA, and they bugged a binder in his office. He was heard discussing an American he was in the process of recruiting.

That American was Carter Page.

So the impetus for the original surveillance of Carter Page did not come from Fusion GPS or Democratic opposition research. It came from counter-intelligence surveillance where Page was actively discussed as being the target of recruitment. But again, a lot of people feel the impetus for the Nunez memo will be to justify the firing of Rosenstein.

So if Rosenstein is fired, and a Trump lackey is put into the position, he will be able to fire or curtail Mueller. That is the purpose of going after Rosenstein. And if Trump is successful in politicizing the FBI, we will have a Federal Police Department that is not looking to secure the United States, but the political interests of Donald Trump.

And this is a very big deal.

[_Quasimodo]

It's no longer amusing (if it ever was). The U.S. is in serious danger today of losing it's rule of law and thus, it's Democracy.

When you say "serious danger," what's your evidence for that statement?

The GOP voted to release a memo about the Trump/ Russia investigation to open a path to firing Robert Mueller.

The GOP today is pressing for the firing of assistant Attorney General Rod Rod Rosenstein. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/28/us/politics/rod-rosenstein-carter-page-secret-memo.html

If Rod Rosenstein is fired, Trump will be able to find someone to replace him that will agree to fire Mueller.

If the replacement fires Mueller, it seems likely that the current Republicans will support that (unlike during Watergate and Nixon).

Game/ Set/ Match. To me, it's very scary and quite possible.

[_EAllusion]

A Rosenstein replacement doesn't necessarily have to fire Mueller. They have the power to subvert Mueller's investigation without ending it.

We're in the calm before the storm phase for that one. We already have all sorts of reason to believe the memo is going to consist of a selectively edited presentation of facts to give a misleading impression of malfeasance. It's so blatant. The only question is how much that will get to control the narrative and if the Trump admin will try to use it to purge the DoJ/FBI further.

It's probably going to be maddening to watch at a minimum and catastrophic in a worst case scenario of it being used as the propaganda basis to conduct a crony takeover of federal law enforcement.

If it goes worst case and Rosenstein is axed to strangle the Russia investigation, I'm not sure what the right response is. You can feel the authoritarian noose strangling the country at that point, and opportunity for fixing it via the ballot box will shrink over time.

[_MeDotOrg]

A Rosenstein replacement doesn't necessarily have to fire Mueller. They have the power to subvert Mueller's investigation without ending it.

We're in the calm before the storm phase for that one. We already have all sorts of reason to believe the memo is going to consist of a selectively edited presentation of facts to give a misleading impression of malfeasance. It's so blatant. The only question is how much that will get to control the narrative and if the Trump admin will try to use it to purge the DoJ/FBI further.

It's probably going to be maddening to watch at a minimum and catastrophic in a worst case scenario of it being used as the propaganda basis to conduct a crony takeover of federal law enforcement.

If it goes worst case and Rosenstein is axed to strangle the Russia investigation, I'm not sure what the right response is. You can feel the authoritarian noose strangling the country at that point, and opportunity for fixing it via the ballot box will shrink over time.

I could be wrong, but Rosenstein is fired and a Trump Quisling is put in his place, I think you are going to see demonstrations in this country the likes of which we have not seen since the 1960s. I said before that I thought 2018 could be a watershed year like 1968, and we certainly seem to barreling to some critical confrontations this year. There's nothing wrong with the people of the United States publicly redressing their grievances if they feel their government is not being responsive to their needs.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I don't think we are there yet, but there is a road that could end up with the executive branch trying to run the FBI as a political wing of the White House, and that scares the ____ out of me.

This one genuinely worries me, too. If they're successful at weaponizing the FBI that results in coverage for their kleptocracy we have fundamental democratic issues in this country that can't be ignored.

It bothers me that so many conservatives thought the Democrats under Obama were guilty of some sort of nefarious Big Brother government thing, and then we actually end up with the very thing they were worrying about.

Anyway. These things happen in steps, baby steps. And we're certainly baby stepping in an awful direction right now.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

No doubt there will be big demonstrations, but what does that do?

I witnessed some of the largest political demonstrations in my own city the country had seen in a long time in terms of per capita representation, and it did nothing. Republicans still set up a system of enduring rule with deeply embedded structural advantages.

Protests don't win elections. Votes do. What I implied with my argument is that as authoritarian takeover deepens in government institutions, you are likely to see a curtailing of voter power to uproot it. That's what typically happens. It's incremental, but it doesn't take much to become North Carolina.

There's two prongs to the weaponization of the FBI. There's insulating Trump and his allies from investigation and consequences for wrongdoing, past and future. There's also a decent chance of ginning up law enforcement harassment and discrediting of Trump/Republican enemies.

[_subgenius]

I don't think we are there yet, but there is a road that could end up with the executive branch trying to run the FBI as a political wing of the White House, and that scares the crap out of me.

What friggin' planet have you been living on?
But a former President using the DoJ for political reasons is totally cool, yeah i get ya.

Enough is enough, put your hair fire out and try being an adult for 10 minutes.

[_subgenius]

The GOP voted to release a memo about the Trump/ Russia investigation to open a path to firing Robert Mueller.

The GOP today is pressing for the firing of assistant Attorney General Rod Rod Rosenstein. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/28/us/politics/rod-rosenstein-carter-page-secret-memo.html

If Rod Rosenstein is fired, Trump will be able to find someone to replace him that will agree to fire Mueller.

If the replacement fires Mueller, it seems likely that the current Republicans will support that (unlike during Watergate and Nixon).

Game/ Set/ Match. To me, it's very scary and quite possible.

wow, so much tin foil and so little time.

So, with absolutely no evidence that Trump colluded or obstructed anything you are just comforted by lighting every single hair on your head and screaming in the streets with hopeless abandon for our Constitution and the reality of being an adult citizen in America. Congrats on the whole spoon fed reality thingy.

(spoiler alert: Quasi response to a call for evidence, did not actually provide evidence, but instead provided speculation and hysteria driven by only fear and ignorance).