What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo
There have been many more and more modern examples of democracies falling into autocracy or quasi-autocracy than the Weimar Republic. They tend to follow similar paths and the US is showing similar early warning signs, which is why experts on why democracies fall like Yascha Mounk have been publicly speaking their concern for the US. This isn't specific to Trump, though Trump's would-be despotic tendencies aren't helping at all. He's just as much a symptom as he is a cause.
The interesting thing is that when other countries' democracies have collapsed into authoritarianism, one of the absolute first things to go is independent media. Go down the list - Turkey, Venezuela, Poland, Russia, etc. and one of the important early acts is to muzzle the independent media and to use state control of the media as a propaganda apparatus. That was true of early Nazi Germany. If you are looking for a canary in the coal mine for liberal democracy, propaganda takeover of the independent media is it.
The US hasn't done that. It isn't even close to doing that. The independent media is protected robustly by the first amendment and PBS/NPR aren't anywhere near becoming state media. However, we've got something completely unique in that there is an independent media apparatus that functions like state media. Fox News et. al. are so similar to state propaganda in authoritarian regimes it is eerie. Instead of active legal limitations of the independent media, there's just a constant reinforced culture of discrediting that media by those influenced by that state-media like network.
The interesting thing is that when other countries' democracies have collapsed into authoritarianism, one of the absolute first things to go is independent media. Go down the list - Turkey, Venezuela, Poland, Russia, etc. and one of the important early acts is to muzzle the independent media and to use state control of the media as a propaganda apparatus. That was true of early Nazi Germany. If you are looking for a canary in the coal mine for liberal democracy, propaganda takeover of the independent media is it.
The US hasn't done that. It isn't even close to doing that. The independent media is protected robustly by the first amendment and PBS/NPR aren't anywhere near becoming state media. However, we've got something completely unique in that there is an independent media apparatus that functions like state media. Fox News et. al. are so similar to state propaganda in authoritarian regimes it is eerie. Instead of active legal limitations of the independent media, there's just a constant reinforced culture of discrediting that media by those influenced by that state-media like network.
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo
EAllusion wrote: ... NPR aren't anywhere near becoming state media.
No just state sponsored media that is far to the left. I am sure you did not write that with a straight face.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo
Markk wrote:EAllusion wrote: ... NPR aren't anywhere near becoming state media.
No just state sponsored media that is far to the left. I am sure you did not write that with a straight face.
NPR isn't far left. Not even close, but I suppose if you are sufficiently radical then near everything can look "far left."
More to the point, it isn't state media in the context which I used the term. That refers to when the government exerts direct editorial and financial control over a media entity for purposes of disseminating pro-regime propaganda. NPR being partially funded by the government isn't that.
Voice of America is technically our "state media" but it deliberately is only aimed at foreign nations and historically tries to be somewhat credible to contrast itself against the propaganda of more authoritarian governments it was created to oppose. The Trump admin has plans for that, so we'll see if that holds up.
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo
NPR in aggregate has a soft center-left bias, though its news tries very hard to be objective. Because it derives a huge chunk of its funding from the government, it tends to be the most dogged about appearing balanced and nonjudmental even when that is a false balance between political factions. They don't want to upset the apple cart. For instance, it was (and still is) one of the most stubborn news outlets in referring to torture practices by America as "enhanced interrogation" so it does not appear biased against its advocates even though it refers to the same practices by foreign entities as torture. More broadly, it is absolutely incorrigible with offering stories that take the form, "This group says A, but their critics say B" without pointing out the critics are wrong, lying, etc. As far as American news goes, it's some of the best, but their obsession with *appearing* fair to all sides undercuts the quality of their journalism at times.
The idea that it is far left propaganda is laughable and suggests a lack of familiarity with actual far left propaganda.
The idea that it is far left propaganda is laughable and suggests a lack of familiarity with actual far left propaganda.
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo
EAllusion wrote:NPR isn't far left. Not even close, but I suppose if you are sufficiently radical then near everything can look "far left."

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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo
EAllusion wrote:NPR in aggregate has a soft center-left bias, though its news tries very hard to be objective. Because it derives a huge chunk of its funding from the government, it tends to be the most dogged about appearing balanced and nonjudmental even when that is a false balance between political factions. They don't want to upset the apple cart. For instance, it was (and still is) one of the most stubborn news outlets in referring to torture practices by America as "enhanced interrogation" so it does not appear biased against its advocates even though it refers to the same practices by foreign entities as torture. More broadly, it is absolutely incorrigible with offering stories that take the form, "This group says A, but their critics say B" without pointing out the critics are wrong, lying, etc. As far as American news goes, it's some of the best, but their obsession with *appearing* fair to all sides undercuts the quality of their journalism at times.
The idea that it is far left propaganda is laughable and suggests a lack of familiarity with actual far left propaganda.
I think if one is going to criticize NPR on bias it is more fair to suggest that they are typically "pro-government". Just like your interrogation example they will typically criticize government in the rosiest terms they can muster which often doesn't allow the criticism to be as intense as the situation might warrant it. I find most of their "left leaning" is more in choosing what stories to give time to, not in the actual presentation themselves. Arguments about bias are always silly to me, as everyone has some bias. The better questions for me are "is the news being presented in a factual manner?" and "does this outlet clearly separate news from editorial?".
There is also an important distinction between NPR's news presentations vs the editorial side of things, a difference that I think most people struggle to sort out irregardless of which media outlet we are talking about.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo
Every time the US is in conflict with an authortitarian regime, we get a glimpse into their state media. Nearly all of us probably remember Bagdad Bob. Some of us remember Libyan state media at the twilight of Gaddafi's regime.
It's always absurd and fodder for us to make fun of. It really is funny. While it's easy to understand in the abstract that people of those countries are seriously influenced by it, it's hard to take seriously. Putting on Fox News these days does help bring home the power of absurd state media, though. I know I now have so much more empathy for people in those countries who watch their fellow citizens become captured by ridiculous pro-regime propaganda.
It's always absurd and fodder for us to make fun of. It really is funny. While it's easy to understand in the abstract that people of those countries are seriously influenced by it, it's hard to take seriously. Putting on Fox News these days does help bring home the power of absurd state media, though. I know I now have so much more empathy for people in those countries who watch their fellow citizens become captured by ridiculous pro-regime propaganda.
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo
I think all of this is on point. The soft center-left bias I was referring to is mostly in coverage choices.Xenophon wrote:EAllusion wrote:NPR in aggregate has a soft center-left bias, though its news tries very hard to be objective. Because it derives a huge chunk of its funding from the government, it tends to be the most dogged about appearing balanced and nonjudmental even when that is a false balance between political factions. They don't want to upset the apple cart. For instance, it was (and still is) one of the most stubborn news outlets in referring to torture practices by America as "enhanced interrogation" so it does not appear biased against its advocates even though it refers to the same practices by foreign entities as torture. More broadly, it is absolutely incorrigible with offering stories that take the form, "This group says A, but their critics say B" without pointing out the critics are wrong, lying, etc. As far as American news goes, it's some of the best, but their obsession with *appearing* fair to all sides undercuts the quality of their journalism at times.
The idea that it is far left propaganda is laughable and suggests a lack of familiarity with actual far left propaganda.
I think if one is going to criticize NPR on bias it is more fair to suggest that they are typically "pro-government". Just like your interrogation example they will typically criticize government in the rosiest terms they can muster which often doesn't allow the criticism to be as intense as the situation might warrant it. I find most of their "left leaning" is more in choosing what stories to give time to, not in the actual presentation themselves. Arguments about bias are always silly to me, as everyone has some bias. The better questions for me are "is the news being presented in a factual manner?" and "does this outlet clearly separate news from editorial?".
There is also an important distinction between NPR's news presentations vs the editorial side of things, a difference that I think most people struggle to sort out irregardless of which media outlet we are talking about.
I also think you have to distinguish between its hard journalism and other entertainment. The fact that The People's Pharmacy routinely shares pseudoscience liberals are attracted to, but you'd never see the NPR equivalent of right-wing associated pseudoscience is refective of programming bias. That's not news per se, though.
This tangent is a bit off track. The main problem is that Markk didn't realize "state media" refers to something other than public radio. It doesn't mean funded by the state. My whole point is that public radio and TV in America isn't close to becoming state media.
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo
I am increasingly amazed at how some on this forum can continue to support Trump, despite the increasingly obvious fact of his misogyny and racism and history of dishonesty in his business dealings, plus the no longer uncontroversial facts that he is the most openly corrupt and self-serving President we have ever had (which he and cohorts hardly even try to hide anymore), the most willfully and proudly ignorant (especially about science, math and history), the most obviously incompetent individual who was ever elected to that office and so notoriously a pathological liar that his own lawyers fear the prospect of his being subject to having to testify under oath because of the high probably that he will perjure himself.
That people like Markk, Subgenius, Bach, Majax and even Ceeboo still sycophantically support this narcissistic clown implies a lot about either their morality or cognitive abilities or both--none of it good! If Trump has any redeeming qualities at all, I am not aware of them!
That people like Markk, Subgenius, Bach, Majax and even Ceeboo still sycophantically support this narcissistic clown implies a lot about either their morality or cognitive abilities or both--none of it good! If Trump has any redeeming qualities at all, I am not aware of them!
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
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Re: What a shock! Trump blocks Schiff's memo
Gunnar wrote:
That people like....................... Ceeboo still sycophantically support this narcissistic clown implies a lot about either their morality or cognitive abilities or both
Actually, my friend Gunnar - In addition to your post being nothing more than your personal fantasy -
Your post really and truly says a lot about you!
(God - I just had to read KG's Bull crap on another thread)