How do we all feel about Military Parades?

[_Doctor Steuss]

As I’ve thought about this a bit more than the initial farts of thoughts involved in my earliest comments…

I guess to me, it depends on what the purpose is. If it’s meant to be a show of America’s military might, then it seems pretty unnecessary.

If it’s meant to celebrate the men/women who have fought for our country, I think I could stomach the cost much better if it was distributed out to more local levels. Kind of a “hey, here’s a little extra from the fed for you to gussy up your Veteran’s Day parade.”

Or, maybe just give everyone under a certain pay threshold a $500 “thank you” bonus. Would probably cost less, and be more meaningful.

[_Jersey Girl]

The military air and ground response would be basically the same without ordnance.

nowhere near the same...especially not "basically". It is rather like your post does not understand that having the Blue Angels do a stadium flyover on Sunday is nowhere near the same cost as a combat response....with your background did you really think these two types of operations are "basically" the same?

Abstract thinking escapes you doesn't it? That was a small illustration of what is entailed in "Let's have a parade!" and you know exactly fuckall about principles of transportation.

The Blue Angels are based in Pensacola, Thunderbirds are based out of Nellis. I have no earthly idea at the moment if the Army, Marines, or Reserves have their own flight demonstration teams. Their events schedule and their operating budget are almost surely already engraved in granite and you want one of them to do a flyover over the Capitol, right? Transportation principles in practice, require that you coordinate that flyover with their events schedule. If you want one or both to function outside of their events schedules not to mention their operating budgets to please a President who thinks he can summon them at the snap of his fingers while at the same time playing whack a mole with various budgets which he's doing as we speak. I mean, type.

He presumably wants to move personnel into the area to parade. How do you think they are transported? Do you think they march to DC?

The smart approach is to conduct a cost analysis, figure out how much money is involved in moving personnel and equipment to DC vs flying him to THEM at their duty stations in coordination with his own schedule. Do it, film it and get over himself.

I have no idea any more how much it would cost to put one tank in DC much less multiple combat vehicle assets. Do you think that you drive a tracked vehicle OTR to it's destination?

I'm going with Cam on this since his experience is more current than my own, it has got to be upwards of a billion dollars to make it happen in the magnitude that President seems to want it to happen.

If he wants them to come to him, let him spring for it. According to him he's got it.

[_canpakes]

...you're looking at $100/day for lodging and per diem. And I'm telling you now that's on the low end.

30,000 troops to move, encamp, participate, decamp, and then move again you're looking at a 30-day operation. You're looking at $900,000,000 just to move people around.

Waitaminute, Doc - if that’s only the per diem, doesn’t that figure need the decimal point moved over one space to the left?

(Not that this isn’t still extremely expensive ...)

[_Markk]

I am not sure it would cost billions, or anywhere close to that, where did you get those numbers? That is too much for a parade in my opinion...I am sure they can do one for much less.

I dunno. Maybe having spent twenty years in the Army, a 1/4 of which generating budgets and understanding logistics & operational costs kind of colors my reality on something like this.

It would be a massive, massive, massive expenditure to plan, encamp, and execute a military operation with tens of thousands of troops, equipment, airplanes, helicopters, security assets, and then repairs to infrastructure.

I'm surprised businessmen like yourself don't see the total costs of this kind of thing.

- Doc

Billions is a bunch of money Doc...

I am not a business man, I just manage projects and watch dollars for a very successful businessman.

Are we really talking about 10's of thousands of troops?

The major costs I see would be security and overtime costs. I can move a large bulldozer the size of a tank a few hundred miles for under 2 grand all day long. I get the military is different having managed military projects, and nothing is cheap, so double or triple that cost with security and prevailing wage costs. I spent a year on San Clemente Island building barracks for the Navy. And had to barge in equipment and material, ...including big equipment, concrete trucks, and even a portable concrete plant. I get the costs.

What I am saying is I doubt very very highly it would cost "Billions." I googled the cost for the Rose parade, but could not find it, but the cost for the 2016 Macy's TG day parade was, and I cut and paste "the parade’s cost in 2016 was about $10.4 million to $12.3 million."

I get security would be off the charts...but to put it in perspective the 2015 super bowl costs for security was around 3 million dollars. The 2016 super bowl was 3.5 million.

I totally get the military does not work like the private secure, and typically we project about 2 to 2-1/2 times more for military work.

Tens of millions of dollars for sure, but billions I just don't see it...not even close...if I am wrong, which I may be, I will stand next to you in saying no, no, no Doc.

by the way, the 1991 military parade cost 8 million...

According to the Post, the 1991( military) parade cost over $8 million. As reported by CNBC, $3 million of the $8 million in costs were paid for by U.S. government funds and the rest was paid for through private donations.

https://www.bustle.com/p/how-much-would ... ns-8145874

Also remember the government will make back a little on local taxes for lodging, food etc.

[_Markk]

The logistics of bringing in tanks and helicopters isn't cheap. Because let's face it, if Trump wants it he will want to go all out.

My concern is that it puts a huge target on them for potential terrorist attacks. Right now, somewhere, there are people just waiting for something like this to happen. They've had to settle for marathons and large gatherings but they'd absolutely love to take out dozens of military personnel with a bomb.

I go to the airshows here at Dobbins AFB every once in a while, but that's more a celebration of aviation and less to do with military. It is also a secured area and doesn't break the bank.

So we should not have a military parade becasue we don't want to entice a terrorist ?

[_Elphaba]

What's Trump going to do when no one shows up to his puerile parade?

I know, stupid question. Smithers, er, I mean Stephen Miller, will go on MSNBC, shout in Tapper's face that it was the most attended parade ever, "Even beat Macy's!" Tapper will reply "Nonsense," and we'll hear the words "fake news" thrice as often as usual for the rest of the day.

Next, Trump will claim it was unAmerican and treasonous for people to stay away, especially Obama. When someone tries for the 1,239,564th time to explain that not doing what he wants is not "treason," he'll claim "they" are calling it treason everywhere, refuse to say who "they" are, and insist "they" are correct. Just in case, he'll call Putin to verify he's right.

Then, knowing deep down no one showed up to his musclefest because we all metaphorically gag at his sag, Trump will go into a rage and order the unprincipled, dishonest, arrogant, and sometimes downright vile group of people he hired, otherwise known as his "staff," to come up with an excuse for him to finally push the button to nuke No. Korea. Hell, I heard "them" say he's really pissed off at So. Korea for holding NK's hands at the Olympics, so he might include it in the kill zone just to make his revenge that much sweeter. Hey, "they" said it so it must be true.

I don't know if his mental health has declined sufficiently for him to actually use that self-noted huge thumb of his this time, but he's nosediving fast. Only the most obtuse don't see it, and eventually something is going to trigger him after he's declined such that his brain will be unable to stop his compulsion. And, as always, his rash reaction will be all about his hurt and petulant ego that really wanted us to see those metaphorical bulges. It will never be about anything having to do with reality.

Yes, it's possible I'm exaggerating. But it is possible, in my opinion highly possible, that something similar is going to happen eventually. And let's say my scenario plays out to the point Trump is ready to push that button but manages to hold back at the last minute. Once again we'll all have whiplash from watching his erratic mood and actions. In fact, we'll just barely be getting over it when he throws his next tantrum--I'd say Friday at the latest.

I think that's why so many feel so helpless. Trump never allows us enough time for the whiplash to heal, and dealing with the pain of worrying if this is ever going to end or, even worse, if it is already too late, is so overwhelming it's becoming too hard to keep trying. For me, that's not a metaphor. It's the literal truth.

Elphaba

[_subgenius]

What's Trump going to do when no one shows up to his puerile parade?

well, puerile is certinaly a bit of an exaggeration...but your post is certainly puerile if it believes no one is going to willingly attend a military parade.

I think that's why so many feel so helpless. Trump never allows us enough time for the whiplash to heal....

why should he? hire a nursemaid if adulting is so difficult that you need President to stroke your hair and read you a bedtime story. The Executive Branch is not a cult meant to entertain citizens with snark, fashion shows, with, and whimsy.
Feeling helpless is not Trump's fault, perhaps your post's examination should turn its eye elsewhere?

[_subgenius]

My concern is that it puts a huge target on them for potential terrorist attacks. Right now, somewhere, there are people just waiting for something like this to happen. They've had to settle for marathons and large gatherings but they'd absolutely love to take out dozens of military personnel with a bomb.

I go to the airshows here at Dobbins AFB every once in a while, but that's more a celebration of aviation and less to do with military. It is also a secured area and doesn't break the bank.

But wait! at Dobbins somehow your concern large gatherings being a huge target for terrorist attacks just magically disappears?....why don't terrorists settle for airshows in North Georgia?

How come your posts exaggerate the danger of terrorist attacks only when politically convenient? Heck if it is a pro-DACA rally somehow your posts' terrorist attack philosophy becomes malleable to the hair-fire du jour. marathons? . . . how many marathons have been attacked by terrorists? is it really a plural situation?

The unexamined life amiright.

[_Some Schmo]

Next, Trump will claim it was unAmerican and treasonous for people to stay away, especially Obama. When someone tries for the 1,239,564th time to explain that not doing what he wants is not "treason," he'll claim "they" are calling it treason everywhere, refuse to say who "they" are, and insist "they" are correct. Just in case, he'll call Putin to verify he's right.

Great to see you, El.

Loved your post, especially the quoted part.

[_Markk]

I have a co worker who was on track to be a career military man (Marines) until after 8 years of service had his foot crushed in a forklift accident in Iraq. He was a non com and had responsibilities of helicopter maintenance, deployment, and readiness for a squadron(or what ever one calls a dozen or so helicopters).

I was telling him about this conversation and asked him if he would appreciate a parade, he stated yes. I took it further asked him how much does he think it would cost to mobilize a group of helicopters, and while he did not know the actual costs, he made a great point is stating that the marines would have to show full readiness and training once a year...and three times a year in mini exercises.

He told 4 times a year he and his team would have go into full mobilization as an training SOP.

He also told me it was basically up to the commander as to what the three mini exercises would be and that airshows and parades could count as a readiness exercise for a parade. He used exact terminology that I can't remember for all this.

In other words, instead of loading up and moving troops to the desert or other locations, they can do so for a parade and it would count as a deployment exercise.