You don't need Jesus

[_huckelberry]

Isaiah 1;10
Hear the word of the Lord, you rulers of Sodom,
listen to the law of our God, you people of Gomorrah.
The multitude of your sacrifices, what are they to me?says the Lord

I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals,
I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and of goats.
When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you ,this trampling of my courts?
Stop bringing meaningless offerings, Your incense is detestable to me.
... I cannot bare your evil assemblies ....
15 Your hands are full of blood
wash and make yourself clean
Take your evil deeds from my sight. Stop doing wrong. Seek justice encourage the oppressed, Defend the cause of the fatherless.....

18 Come now let us reason together says the Lord,
Though your sins are like scarlet they shall be as white as snow.
///////////////////////////////////////
This is the real Bible gospel not that chick comic stuff designed to protect the privileged from their guilt. 6

[Guest]

Shulem, I think you confuse the power to forgive with the outward sign of the path God chose to make forgiveness reach the world.

I am well familiar with the Bible. It is true that I do not hold to the fundamentalist Protestant requirement you refer to but respect the thoughts presented in the Bible as the starting place for thought on the matter.

If you wish a Biblical description of the matter read Romans not just a fragment of Hebrews.(which refers to blood being the sign of the covenant that God makes.)

It seems like a barbaric way to show us how to get back to God. Why do you think God wanted his son tortured? Did crucifixion somehow give it more meaning? Surely he could have used a better method than that if it merely was an outward sign of the path. How about some non-contradictory advice? How about appearing and explaining the path if it is so important?

[_huckelberry]

Shulem, I think you confuse the power to forgive with the outward sign of the path God chose to make forgiveness reach the world.

I am well familiar with the Bible. It is true that I do not hold to the fundamentalist Protestant requirement you refer to but respect the thoughts presented in the Bible as the starting place for thought on the matter.

If you wish a Biblical description of the matter read Romans not just a fragment of Hebrews.(which refers to blood being the sign of the covenant that God makes.)

It seems like a barbaric way to show us how to get back to God. Why do you think God wanted his son tortured? Did cruxifiction somehow give it more meaning? Surely he could have used a better method than that if it merely was an outward sign of the path. How about some non-contradictory advice? How about appearing and explaining the path if it is so important?

Exiled,
But he did come in person and show us the way. The governing authorities did not like that because it involved giving respect to everybody so they killed him. It was the human way that was barbaric.

Jesus death was most certainly not an outward show it was him committing his entire life to showing us how to live. He had to face the uncertainties of being attacked by the people in power. He had to commit himself to not backing down and accepting what people would do to him in response to what he showed them.

And God does not like the way his son was treated and those who refuse to turn from the inner paths of vainglory and indifference to the poor will like Dives remain unforgiven.

[_Shulem]

Isaiah 1;10 Hear the word of the Lord, you rulers of Sodom, listen to the law of our God, you people of Gomorrah.

Listen to me, Jehovah, I'm a gay man -- homosexual true and blue. You will not slay me, a vile and murderous god, you are pure evil in my sight.

The multitude of your sacrifices, what are they to me?says the Lord

Are you drunk, Jehovah? Have you lost your mind again? Is your prophet Isaiah so depressed and despondent that he has forgotten how to represent your murderous ways? You love blood and delight in offerings. They are a sweet smell to your nose. Have you forgotten already?

I have more than enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fattened animals, I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and of goats.

You've murdered countless animals for your own vain glory and have asked your people to perform all manner of barbaric rituals in order to satisfy your thirst for blood. Your animal sacrifices are all an abomination. You, Jehovah, are a butcher. You have delighted in countless sacrifices because you love to kill -- you love to murder -- you love to put all manner of life to death, whether it be beasts or men. You, Jehovah, are a serial killer and are evil.

When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you ,this trampling of my courts?
Stop bringing meaningless offerings, Your incense is detestable to me.
... I cannot bare your evil assemblies ....
15 Your hands are full of blood
wash and make yourself clean
Take your evil deeds from my sight. Stop doing wrong. Seek justice encourage the oppressed, Defend the cause of the fatherless

Oh Jehovah, your hands are already soaked in blood -- you are a murderer many times over. You have slain men and beasts and have ordered the cult sacrifice of so many animals for your crude glory and sick mind. The rituals of blood performed by Moses and his priests are disgusting and barbaric. There is nothing to justify your wickedness and the harm you have brought into the world through your sick religion and cult law of sacrifice. You have slain and put to death men, women, children, and animals all for your sick glory.

I rebuke you, Jehovah -- thou evil god of the Bible!

[_Shulem]

Shulem, I think you confuse the power to forgive with the outward sign of the path God chose to make forgiveness reach the world.

I am well familiar with the Bible. It is true that I do not hold to the fundamentalist Protestant requirement you refer to but respect the thoughts presented in the Bible as the starting place for thought on the matter.

If you wish a Biblical description of the matter read Romans not just a fragment of Hebrews.(which refers to blood being the sign of the covenant that God makes.)

I'm not confused. I know full well that the prophets of the Bible campaigned for blood and cult rituals. Moses's blades were sharp and his crazy wife cut his foreskin and his sons slit the necks of countless animals -- bleeding them upon altars in a tabernacle to glorify a blood thirsty god and maintain order through horror and suffering. They put to death all that opposed them. It was a cult! Evil and bloodthirsty!

The religion of the Bible is a cult. The sacrifice of Jesus is simply another defining moment when blood rituals and sacrifice are used to keep the people in fear: Pray, pay, and obey.

Blah!

[_Meadowchik]

Christianity is an adapted tradition which has endured in part because of its social benefit. Pretend you never heard of any religion ever. Why would you stake your life on a stranger's beliefs?

[_Dr Exiled]

Christianity is an adapted tradition which has endured in part because of its social benefit. Pretend you never heard of any religion ever. Why would you stake your life on a stranger's beliefs?

I agree that social pressures/benefits are what drives religion (as well as politics for that matter). I cannot remember who said this first, but I remember a teacher in school mentioning in passing without much emphasis (probably because she didn't want to get in trouble in the one horse town of SLC) but she mentioned the obvious point of how where you were born determines your religion. My guess is that it has to do with how religion and politics are closely mixed and the powers that be like to remain such.

[_candygal]

In any case..sometimes I look at Jesus and see him as a great philosipher ..of his time. Whether or not He is the Son of God does not matter to me...but I do love his teachings and his parables. I see truth here the way I look at some Shakespear..and Emerson..Thoreau ..a lot of great thinkers. God I keep..and maybe those thinkers are steering us a way out of religion and into a truth that only God knows. Yes..I am nuts...totally!

[_Shulem]

In any case..sometimes I look at Jesus and see him as a great philosipher ..of his time. Whether or not He is the Son of God does not matter to me...but I do love his teachings and his parables. I see truth here the way I look at some Shakespear..and Emerson..Thoreau ..a lot of great thinkers. God I keep..and maybe those thinkers are steering us a way out of religion and into a truth that only God knows. Yes..I am nuts...totally!

Jesus did teach some cool things -- no doubt about that. Teachings of love and the good Samaritan, all good stuff. But those are wise teachings found in all cultures and in all religions of all ages. It was nothing new. The only thing new that Jesus taught was the bit about drinking his blood and eating his flesh -- gross stuff like that which caused his followers to walk away from him. Obviously the man Jesus was unstable and a total freak -- he pissed the Romans and the Jews off so much they finally had to put him down. The poor guy was no doubt mentally disturbed but obviously brilliant.

Oh well. Jesus H. Christ. Poor sorry dude.

[Guest]

Oh well. Jesus H. Christ. Poor sorry dude.

Shulem, we're not talking about Mormon apostles here. Please start referring to Jesus using his full middle name not just his middle initial. Thanks.

Jesus Hussein Christ?

ETA:

Apparently the right answer is Harold. Yes, it's Harold. Jesus Harold Christ. I kid you not, there is whole wiki page on this subject. Jesus Harold Christ what is the world coming to?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_H._Christ