Russia Likely Did Swing Votes For Donald Trump

[_honorentheos]

I tend to believe you're not suggesting increasing tax rates in order to redistribute wealth to the lower classes?

- Doc

Why would you say that?

Because I quoted the portion of what you posted that leads me to believe that. What would propose to companies and individuals that are sitting on billions to loosen up their grip on their accumulated wealth?

- Doc

I don't follow your thinking. You quoted me as saying I believe there needs to be disincentives for hording wealth which you then say the above regarding excluding tax rates from the solution space. I have no idea where you get your ideas about what I think from that snippet.

[_honorentheos]

There is a saying in construction that anyone with wheel barrow and a shovel thinks they are are a qualified contractor...the same goes for the many hacks on the web...anyone with a computer and an calculator thinks they are a economist.

Game, set, match, EA.

That, anyway, or one of the most ironic things I've read in a while.

[_Markk]

Strong immigration and the ability of a company to higher whomever they want seems closer to that free market ideal than restricting the labor force.

Who is arguing against "strong immigration?" I'm arguing against unmitigated immigration for reasons I've already stated. I take it those that disagree with me on this point believe that homelessness and poverty, which are skyrocketing right now, isn't related to the introduction of millions of low-skill immigrants, but due to personal choice?

- Doc

Kind of a different topic...but...

I was at a project the other day and I asked one of our workers a question...he did not understand a word I said, I had his direct supervisor with me and he had to translate for me what I needed done.

I took the supervisor out to lunch (who is a friend of 15 years or so) and I asked him questions such as how many workers on these jobs are illegal , what their view is of Americans, and alike...and it is really telling of the reality that we are facing.

In short, they feel this is their country, that they have right to full privileges of our system and that California is in all reality a Mexican "state." The loyalty is to Mexico. They feel they have won back their country.

It is hard to explain the bigotry there is against folks like me in CA. And over all how even law abiding immigrants have no respect for our culture and way of life. Things like litter, code enforcement, permits, pride of ownership are degrading our country at an alarming rate. You can objectively look at picture of LA communities some 40 years ago, and look at then today and see this...not in a study, but with our eyes, that is if one wants to see what is really happening.

[_EAllusion]

"
Google is amazing, you can find a link to prove anything you like.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/20 ... /96493348/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/ ... 84204.html

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/201 ... aries.html

https://www.cornerstone.edu/blogs/lifel ... hool-grads

https://seekingalpha.com/article/412218 ... n-continue

I can go on and on with these types of studies, theories, and opinion EA...which are all over the place. Which is why my assertion is that you just cherry pich crap to fit your opinion.

None of these links support the contention that either immigration suppresses wages generally or that immigration does not increase wages generally. I don't think you understand what you are reading. The biggest error in your reasoning, which seems manifest in the fact that you shared this links thinking they contradicted anything I said, is that you confuse absolute wage growth adjusted for inflation with specific pressures on wages.

[_Markk]

There is a saying in construction that anyone with wheel barrow and a shovel thinks they are are a qualified contractor...the same goes for the many hacks on the web...anyone with a computer and an calculator thinks they are a economist.

Game, set, match, EAllusion.

That, anyway, or one of the most ironic things I've read in a while.

Or you can address the different studies on the topic, that all have different conclusions...why is your choice of links, the correct one? Are wages higher or lower, what is your study of the day you choose to believe?

[Guest]

Doc, in what world is immigration "unmitigated"? Undocumented immigration is down from Mexico and has stagnated from elsewhere and it appears less and less people are trying to cross the border. It is difficult to discuss the problem with you because you are starting with this false premise.

It is important to note that although homelessness is up, this is after a long trend of it falling and the numbers belie the idea that it is "skyrocketing". There are also far more issues at play than either immigration or personal choice, that is a false dichotomy. An affordable housing crises that is at catastrophic levels (not ironically fueled by parts of the country being discussed in this thread) is a key driver, as New York and LA are basically single-handedly driving the increase. I know you're in favor of tackling that problem, I vaguely remember you bringing it up some pages back, I think that has to be a primary focus if you want to tackle this problem.

Since we seem to enjoy anecdotal evidence, I'll share mine. In the city I am in, homelessness, particularly that classed as chronic, is down while still experiencing an increase in low-skill immigrant labor. The group I volunteer with and other non-profits has been able to help spur this, in partnership with the city, by redirecting a ton of focus and resources to three things;

• affordable housing - we finished a full set of low/no income apartments that represented a significant increase in the number of units available to place people in
• partner with local hospitals to help eliminate/reduce medical debts, a primary cause for families in our area entering the poverty cycle
• Veteran outreach programs - placing vets in appropriate work environments suited to their skill sets that were sympathetic to their situation

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I don't follow your thinking. You quoted me as saying I believe there needs to be disincentives for hording wealth which you then say the above regarding excluding tax rates from the solution space. I have no idea where you get your ideas about what I think from that snippet.

I might've misinterpreted what you meant by disincentivzing companies and individuals from holding onto their wealth. Let me try this again.

As I noted above to Cam, I personally think government intervention is necessary for capital to move in the economy at levels that create the benefits we've been talking about.

What would you have the government do to get capital moving? I'm not sure what that even means.

It's more intuitive than something I've seen demonstrated in models. So, I guess it's a bias of mine. But that's my sense of why overall we're seeing wealth accrue disproportionately to the most wealthy few even as the effect of both automation and cheaper immigrant labor have positive effects on real wages in the US.

You can't really have it both ways here. One, you're saying automation and immigrant labor has positive effects on wages in the US, while at the same exact time saying automation and immigrant labor result in companies and individuals accruing disproportionate amounts of wealth. You're contradicting yourself.

Earlier you said:

My real argument is that there needs to be disincentives for hording wealth to maintain the benefits of automation and immigrant labor. There's a certain irony in the complaint by blue collar conservatives against immigrant labor in my perspective because of this.

You've stated that automation and immigrant labor result in wealth inequity and you state, in the same sentence, we need to discourage the wealth that results from that. I'm asking you what you would have the government do to move hordes of wealth out of companies' and individuals' clutches into the economy so, I guess, we can have more automation and immigrant labor? I'm trying to wrap my mind around your thought process here.

[_Markk]

"
Google is amazing, you can find a link to prove anything you like.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/20 ... /96493348/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/ ... 84204.html

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/201 ... aries.html

https://www.cornerstone.edu/blogs/lifel ... hool-grads

https://seekingalpha.com/article/412218 ... n-continue

I can go on and on with these types of studies, theories, and opinion EAllusion...which are all over the place. Which is why my assertion is that you just cherry pich crap to fit your opinion.

None of these links support the contention that either immigration suppresses wages generally or that immigration does not increase wages generally. I don't think you understand what you are reading. The biggest error in your reasoning, which seems manifest in the fact that you shared this links thinking they contradicted anything I said, is that you confuse absolute wage growth adjusted for inflation with specific pressures on wages.

They prove my point that you just pick and choose links that support your political view, and refuse to look the really issue with your own eyes. You claimed that folks with high school diplomas make more because of illegal immigration...which you failed to remotely prove...and the links I gathered in a few minutes, show how across the board opinions and variables are.

Give some tangible examples that support your assertion?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Doc, in what world is immigration "unmitigated"?

I'm talking about the Libertarian (?) utopia that EA is proposing that unrestricted immigration would provide everyone. I'm interpreting his comments that he thinks we should allow as many people to immigrate to our country as possible since immigration provides a net benefit in wages, quality of life, whatever it is he's stating.

What I'm stating, and have stated multiple times, is that kind of immigration would be absolutely devastating to our country as we have known it, and this can be born out by having had millions of illegal immigrants flood our system which has caused various issues which we've talked about already. I think we're all at an impasse. Ajax is probably more concerned about ethnicity. Markk is concerned about labor markets and the resulting homelessness in SoCal. I'm just interested in finding a way to make it all work so we can get people off the streets, people employed, and people housed.

Anyway. I'm pro-immigration, but in a measured, common sense approach. I'm not threatened by Mexican, or Hispanic, or Latino immigration. Quite the opposite; I think it's great.

- Doc

[_Xenophon]

My mistake, Doc, I assumed you were referencing the actual situation we have in our country. I'd be willing to bet that completely wide open borders isn't exactly EA's position, but I'll let him answer that.

Anyway. I'm pro-immigration, but in a measured, common sense approach. I'm not threatened by Mexican, or Hispanic, or Latino immigration. Quite the opposite; I think it's great.

So how we are doing it now is cool?