Russia Likely Did Swing Votes For Donald Trump

[_Markk]

If there aren't enough English speakers left in L.A. for there to be a demand for electricians who speak English, move someplace else. I can assure you that most cities in America have many English speaking people--even if there aren't any left in L.A. Move to where the opportunity matches your skill set. That is how the free market works.

Capitalism isn't supposed to be easy. It is supposed to be competitive. Not everybody wins.

Just because you aren't very competitive in your chosen market doesn't mean the world would be a better place if the government steps in and tells customers who they can and cannot hire.

That is an equally dumb post, and a cop out.

You are saying that it is okay for illegal immigrants come to your city, take your jobs by working cheaper, and if you don't like it move? And folks wonder why Trump won.

[_Markk]

Awesome...LOL...why is that a reach?

Because it's a joke based on the fact that I know your line of work.

That is exactly what is happening, and not only in construction. However where you are wrong is that being a computer programmer is not necessarily a better paying job...a union carpenter/or prevailing wage rate in So Ca. makes around 41 dollars an hour with benefits 59 dollars and hour. (120K a year).. it is hard to say what a native would make in the private sector in that illegal have driven the market down so much.

I was making up numbers to illustrate an abstract point. You could say "flibberflarb" and it would've been as effective of an illustration.

Yet, a immigrant makes anywhere from 10-20 dollars an hour on average on a private job. I google what a computer programmer makes on the average and it is 80K a year. So I do not see the logic in your argument. You would have to take each job or profession separately.

Labor competition, from immigrants in this case, frees up people to do more productive things and drives down the cost of production.

I agree it is very poor for your side of the argument, in that it supports and confirms my argument.

How do you make more money becasue of illegal immigration...I believe this is my 5th request of so.

[_EAllusion]

That is real easy to answer...because there is no way to know otherwise...do you think these illegal immigrants carry resumes and references?

Why are you hiring people without resumes and references?

[_EAllusion]

How do you make more money becasue of illegal immigration...I believe this is my 5th request of so.

I've explained how it works in varying levels of detail, from sharing a dense economic text from a blue chip report, to links on thought experiments, to real world data, to writing my own illustration.

Immigration raises wages, on average, by making some products cheaper while making people more efficient about self-selecting work they are more productive at. How this helps me is that it frees my time up to do things I'm better at and am likely to make more money doing and makes the costs of certain goods and services I take advantage of cheaper than it otherwise would be. Another way to say it is that I benefit from a growing economy that immigration helps fuel.

You do realize that I'm expressing traditional economic conservatism and you are expressing a desire for leftist protectionism, right? I only ask because I think you imagine it is the opposite.

[_EAllusion]

You are saying that it is okay for illegal immigrants come to your city, take your jobs by working cheaper, and if you don't like it move? And folks wonder why Trump won.

The person who most accurately supports and expresses the point of view you are arguing in this thread is Bernie Sanders, not Donald Trump. Trump is anti-immigrant, no doubt, but it is Sanders who is the one who is skeptical of immigration on protection of native labor grounds with a voting track record to prove it. Unlike Trump, whose immigration policy is entwined heavily with racist xenophobia, Sanders is laser focused on finding ways to prevent native labor having to compete with influxes of immigrants and has supported a variety of measures to reduce guest workers being allowed in the country. Why aren't you a Sanders supporter? And why didn't he win if it's that simple?

[Anonymous]

So how on earth do any of those scenarios effect what the clerk and pilot make...which was EA's assertion...that "clerks and pilots" make more becasue of illegal immigration.

In Universe C, they can purchase more goods and services for the same nominal amount of money, because they are free to negotiate for the best possible deal on the goods and services they want without government restrictions. Thus, in real terms, they make more money in Universe C.

Eta: to belabor the point, say that the clerk makes $50 a day in all three universes. But when she goes to McDonald's for lunch, in Universes A & B where people born in the wrong city or aren't members of the correct union aren't allowed to work, a Value Meal #1 costs $8.00. But in Universe C where the business owner is free to hire whomever he wants, a Value Meal is only $6.50.

Since she can buy more things for the same $50, in real terms she makes more money in Universe C.

[_Analytics]

That is an equally dumb post, and a cop out.

You are saying that it is okay for illegal immigrants come to your city, take your jobs by working cheaper, and if you don't like it move? And folks wonder why Trump won.

I'm not saying it is okay. I am explaining some of the basic arguments in favor of a free-market economy. If you want to argue that the basic capitalist theories of Adam Smith and David Ricardo are wrong and that free enterprise is bad for the economy I would welcome that discussion, but first do what Karl Marx did and learn what capitalists believe and why.

[_Markk]

That is an equally dumb post, and a cop out.

You are saying that it is okay for illegal immigrants come to your city, take your jobs by working cheaper, and if you don't like it move? And folks wonder why Trump won.

I'm not saying it is okay. I am explaining some of the basic arguments in favor of a free-market economy. If you want to argue that the basic capitalist theories of Adam Smith and David Ricardo are wrong and that free enterprise is bad for the economy I would welcome that discussion, but first do what Karl Marx did and learn what capitalists believe and why.

What Karl Marx and the others did and thought, has nothing to do with what is happening in America in regards to illegal immigration.

[_EAllusion]

What Karl Marx and the others did and thought, has nothing to do with what is happening in America in regards to illegal immigration.

You are making a leftist argument for labor protectionism in opposition to capitalism. You might miss this because you imagine yourself as allied with people who talk positively about capitalism, but your pinko arguments tell a different story.

The argument you are making doesn't even require immigration from outside of the US for its reasoning to turn. Southern California is a rich area of the country that has higher wages than many other areas. What if, as has actually happened, people from poorer areas of the country migrate to So-Cal and compete for local jobs? All your economic arguments for why this would be a bad thing continue to apply just the same.

[_Markk]

That is real easy to answer...because there is no way to know otherwise...do you think these illegal immigrants carry resumes and references?

Why are you hiring people without resumes and references?

Are you kidding, because people who have resumes and references want more money. What do we do call Guatemala to check where they used to work?This again shows how you have no clue what is happening, and why you need to make a trip down here. These are people that go to Huntington Park, MacArthur Park or other places alike, to buy their ID's. Do you need a new SS card, I can get you one, last time I asked they were going for about 75 dollars. I once hired two brothers that had SS cards with the same numbers...true story.