Doc, Homless in LA

[_Gadianton]

The reason you have tent cities the lack of shelters. People who have shelter don't need tents. We have tent cities in Seattle, but we do a little better at sheltering our homeless than Los Angeles does.

Exactly. At the very minimum, those who live in tents in communities who are given the opportunity to live indoors once again, will go back indoors. It's immaterial (for the sake of argument with Markk) whether they are druggies or thieves and where they relieve themselves, what matters is the price for housing. They can afford tents and so they buy tents.

What Markk does not appear to either comprehend or accept is that a broken people and housed people are not mutually exclusive sets of people.

[_honorentheos]

As much as Doc may seem extreme, his Colony idea in the desert might be the only real solution at this point, and the more I think about, the more it makes sense...even if unthinkable by the standards we used to hold dear.

Jesus.

Not Jesus. Think of it as Bumplex 1.0. a ghetto in the historical sense. Or, I don't know, like the Japanese concentration camps from WWII.

[_Markk]

The reason you have tent cities the lack of shelters. People who have shelter don't need tents. We have tent cities in Seattle, but we do a little better at sheltering our homeless than Los Angeles does.

Exactly. At the very minimum, those who live in tents in communities who are given the opportunity to live indoors once again, will go back indoors. It's immaterial (for the sake of argument with Markk) whether they are druggies or thieves and where they relieve themselves, what matters is the price for housing. They can afford tents and so they buy tents.

What Markk does not appear to either comprehend or accept is that a broken people and housed people are not mutually exclusive sets of people.

Try again...the average home price in seattle is 699K...LA average is 570k, so much for that theory.

Aug 15, 2016 - According to myapartmentmap.com the average rent for a two bedroom apartment in Seattle is $2,109. That is nearly 80% higher than the national average.

[_Morley]

Try again...the average home price in seattle is 699K...LA average is 570k, so much for that theory.

If you don't mind, where are you getting these numbers?

[_Morley]

The reason you have tent cities the lack of shelters. People who have shelter don't need tents. We have tent cities in Seattle, but we do a little better at sheltering our homeless than Los Angeles does.

Exactly. At the very minimum, those who live in tents in communities who are given the opportunity to live indoors once again, will go back indoors. It's immaterial (for the sake of argument with Markk) whether they are druggies or thieves and where they relieve themselves, what matters is the price for housing. They can afford tents and so they buy tents.
What Markk does not appear to either comprehend or accept is that a broken people and housed people are not mutually exclusive sets of people.

Try again...the average home price in seattle is 699K...LA average is 570k, so much for that theory.

Aug 15, 2016 - According to myapartmentmap.com the average rent for a two bedroom apartment in Seattle is $2,109. That is nearly 80% higher than the national average.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, Markk.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

First of all. Bumplex 1.0 is open to everyone. People can come and go as they please, they'll have solar-powered microapartments with AC & heat. There'll be monorails that bums can ride all day. There'll be ecoparks with shady spots so the bums can nod off after they get their fix. We'll provide catered meals, give them first rate medical care, and then, of course, provide entertainment. Everyone has an iphone at Bumplex 1.0.

I don't know why you hate them so much. Seems like a nice deal to me.

- Doc

[_Markk]

The reason you have tent cities the lack of shelters. People who have shelter don't need tents. We have tent cities in Seattle, but we do a little better at sheltering our homeless than Los Angeles does.

Exactly. At the very minimum, those who live in tents in communities who are given the opportunity to live indoors once again, will go back indoors. It's immaterial (for the sake of argument with Markk) whether they are druggies or thieves and where they relieve themselves, what matters is the price for housing. They can afford tents and so they buy tents.
What Markk does not appear to either comprehend or accept is that a broken people and housed people are not mutually exclusive sets of people.

Try again...the average home price in seattle is 699K...LA average is 570k, so much for that theory.

Aug 15, 2016 - According to myapartmentmap.com the average rent for a two bedroom apartment in Seattle is $2,109. That is nearly 80% higher than the national average.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, Markk.

Not much, I re-read it and misread Glads point. I retrack my post. Sorry Glad.

I will say that Glads point is still wrong, I just used the wrong example. I can use San Bernardino as an example, or the High Desert, where rent is cheap and still people choose live in tents.

It is because most of these folks do not use money wisely. Even if they could save and budget their money...they use it on drugs, alcohol, and other crap. With rent, comes bills and responsibilities. You often have to have first and last and a security deposit...there are many factors like filling out a credit app.


Glad and others have this belief these people are folks just down on their luck...it is not like that at all.

Yes, if rent was 25 dollars a night, they choose that over a tent...and there are cheap motels in some cities that do that. These people live from day to day...most could not afford a 300 dollar a month apartment with the responsibilities that come with it.

[_Morley]

Not much, I re-read it and misread Glads point. I retrack my post.

Got it. Thanks.

But where did you get your Seattle vs. LA average home price numbers? I can't find anything that comes close to matching them.

[_EAllusion]

LOL...You are switching goal posts again...you said that they would be better off in the streets, that in an institution (or now a colony as Doc suggested)...that is what started this EAllusion.

I said that you'd be better off being homeless in a tent city than in a mental institution because mental institutions are horrible, abusive places despite whatever noble intents of the people involved with them. I described a mental institution - and mind you I both help people who historically were institutionalized and I occasionally have to go to places like Mendota for people to this day - as part jail, part CIA black site, and part community center. I was quite serious about that. You do not want to go there.

I also explained in detail in a post that the preferable approach to people who need living assistance is community based living where the population is served in conventional housing developments that are diffuse throughout the community. I said the next best is clustered support, which is when you have people with support needs live in pockets of conventional housing nearby one another. I described a colony approach, which have been spectacular failures when tried, as better than an Institution, but bad. I said mental institutions are a terrible, last resort means of responding to people with pervasive mental illness and even worse if you just plan on throwing all the homeless or fostered children (!) there as was suggested on this thread.

You reacted to my description of community base supports by saying that's just institution by another name. That's not true at all.

[_EAllusion]

We're still in a round of deinstitutionalization even now as the federal government is pushing states to shut down their last bastions of institutionalization. The worry with this is that people will forget what nightmares institutions were and why, and eventually people will be forced back. As a result, I think people need education on what happened with institutionalization, a sort of truth and reconciliation, so it never happens again.