Doc, Homless in LA

[_Markk]

Glad and others have this belief these people are folks just down on their luck...it is not like that at all.

Yes, if rent was 25 dollars a night, they choose that over a tent...and there are cheap motels in some cities that do that. These people live from day to day...most could not afford a 300 dollar a month apartment with the responsibilities that come with it.

No Mark, not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the 23% were somehow paying that 300$ a month rent in 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 - because they WEREN'T on the streets until 2016. How is it, mark, that they had managed to have a place to live all those years prior to becoming the 23% in 2016?

For a lot of reasons...they got hooked on drugs or alcohol...got sick, family finally had enough, turned 18, moved here from another state, depression, domestic violence...and the biggie here in CA; Gov. Brown got sued by judges and had to let tens upon tens of thousands of prisoners loose...since that happened homelessness has risen some 75% or so.

" In 2010 alone, California's prison system released more than 125,000 former prisoners into our neighborhoods. Prisoners close to that number are released each and every year. How many local housing programs would it take to offset this annual tidal wave? Not surprisingly, the California Legislative Analyst's Office estimated in 1999 that 30 to 50 percent of parolees in San Francisco and Los Angeles were homeless."

I keep trying to convey what type of folks there are out there...but people want to look at studies, or gauge it from a white bread world... instead of opening their eyes. You like studies herehear.

https://www.centerforhealthjournalism.o ... melessness

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24scotus.html

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

Also I don't know if you read it or not, but here...

https://www.scpr.org/news/2016/04/28/60 ... reats-fal/

Many in the streets don't want the rules that shelters have...like no drugs, alcohol, stealing, rape, or beating the crap out of people and robbing them...far too many are very bad people Glad...

My guess is, and maybe Karl can jump in, that many are in downtown shelters more for safety than comfort, especially the elderly.

[_Res Ipsa]

Well, yes. If you throw a ton of people in prison for minor drug crimes, which we did, lots of people are going to be released from jail after serving their sentences. That is blowback from the failed war on drugs. And, given the way we stigmatize folks who have served their sentences, it’s not surprising to see those folks as a significant part of the homeless population. But that isn’t a problem peculiar to California in general or LA in particular. We need to do a better job of reintegrating former prisoners back into society and the economy.

As for the one time early release of prisoners that took place over the course of several years, is there any actual data to show how many ended up homeless in LA?

[_karl61]

I think transitioning out of homelessness would be very difficult. You would need some type of program that would put a team approach into action: housing, psychiatry/nursing, social work, welfare/funding. But the person has to be motivated too. In just a normal situation to get an apartment the person goes through a background check which includes, credit check, criminal history, employment, references from past landlords, and many of the homeless will just lie because they don't want any of the past looked into because there likely was a lot of drama with employment or past landlords. I had a friend who told me when she volunteered at a soup kitchen at a mission or somewhere that the homeless will yell loudly " I don't want that piece, give me that one, what is wrong with you", and if you sit too close to them and you don't know about how they want people to stay at least four feet away while they are eating then you are in big trouble. They have their own rules and you better be able to read their mind.

I also think Rep Isa also has a good point about people being released from jail and having no where to go. If they walk south after being released from the main jail they will be at 6th and San Pedro in 20 minutes. I think weather is also a big factor if you compare winter temperatures and rain or snowfall to other cities and LA.

[_Gadianton]

Thanks Markk,

So tell me if I understand your position. The LA times article is RIGHT about the 23% increase in homeless last year, in your opinion, but in your opinion, they are WRONG about the reason for the surge, it was not increased rents, but a 23% increase in prisoners released by Brown, more homeless moving to CA than the years before, a percentage increase in kids turning 18 etc. ?

[_Markk]

Thanks Markk,

So tell me if I understand your position. The LA times article is RIGHT about the 23% increase in homeless last year, in your opinion, but in your opinion, they are WRONG about the reason for the surge, it was not increased rents, but a 23% increase in prisoners released by Brown, more homeless moving to CA than the years before, a percentage increase in kids turning 18 etc. ?

I believe as I have told you it is a lot of different reasons. And as I have said over and over, I believe addiction is the major root reason for it. Rents have a place in it...but there are hundreds of thousands of renters in LA county that are not homeless...that live on very little. Single mothers, and people on permanent disability and alike. How many of these streets even work?

Before you can rent or buy a home...you have to be able to want to work and hold a job...most the homeless on the streets do neither, nor have the desire to do so.

If you paid the rent for most those on the street for three months, they would be back on the streets in four months.

I disagree on with the time for the most part.

[_Gadianton]

Markk,

Save the 18 year olds, were the 23% paying rent and living somewhere in 2015?

[_Markk]

Markk,

Save the 18 year olds, were the 23% paying rent and living somewhere in 2015?

They were ALL defiantly living somewhere, even the 18 year old's, after they age out of the foster system.

Your assuming all are renters...and I guess you are also assuming they are all low end renters.

Many are paroles fresh out, vets coming home and not adjusting, homeowners, immigrants, victims of abuse forced to leave their home, suffered a death of a provider...etc.

To just say it is only because of high rent is missing the reason for homelessness.

Were all the 23% just paying rent? No.

What you are doing is forcing the issue of homelessness into a little box...why you need to do that I do not know, but if you want to truly understand the issue you need to consider all the variables.

If you want to do an interesting search and study...google " aging out" of foster care in regards to homelessness. Screw the prisoners and addicts, I would rather funding goes to help these kids...it is a crime.

1.More than 23,000 children will age out of the US foster care system every year.
2.After reaching the age of 18, 20% of the children who were in foster care will become instantly homeless.
3.Only 1 out of every 2 foster kids who age out of the system will have some form of gainful employment by the age of 24.
4.There is less than a 3% chance for children who have aged out of foster care to earn a college degree at any point in their life.
5.7 out of 10 girls who age out of the foster care system will become pregnant before the age of 21.
6.The percentage of children who age out of the foster care system and still suffer from the direct effects of PTSD: 25%.
7.Tens of thousands of children in the foster care system were taken away from their parents after extreme abuse.
8.8% of the total child population of the United States is represented by reports of abuse that are given to authorities in the United States annually.
9.In 2015, more than 20,000 young people — whom states failed to reunite with their families or place in permanent homes.

https://www.nfyi.org/51-useful-aging-ou ... ace-media/

This blew my mind. There are many hit's and links on this that will really make you think. When I said turning 18, there was a reason...I am sure you understand why I wrote it, if you did not, you do now.

[_EAllusion]

Markk -

I think you keep missing Gadianton's point. A 23% spike requires a causal explanation for why that number of people became homeless when they weren't before. The city as a whole didn't grow that fast. Your own links strongly suggest the main driver in the recent change is changes in housing prices. You contend that it is something else. In your defense, I'd say that while 23% sounds like a lot, in absolute numbers, it's only about 10k people in a city of millions. It is possible that a worsening drug epidemic, etc. could cause cause a spike on that order. But you do nothing to establish it.

I sincerely doubt there was that much of a change in the number of people exiting the foster care system to produce the change.

[_EAllusion]

I was in foster care, as people who pay attention to my posts know. I expected there was a decent chance I'd be kicked out of my foster home on my birthday in January when I turned 18 or right after. I was psychologically prepared for it, if not logistically prepared. But my birthday came and went and I was not removed. After a little time, I came to accept that I'd be allowed to finish out my senior year of high school.

Then, one day in the beginning of March, I came home from school to find my foster parents there with my social worker. I was informed I was being removed immediately. The official reason was an accusation that I had left the house in the middle of the night, returned and made a phone call (of which there was no record), left again, then returned in the morning. This did not happen, which drove me nuts, but they didn't need any reason to remove me. Once you turn 18, that's reason enough.

I was told to get out immediately. All my earthly possessions would be held for 24 hours for me, as required by law, and then thrown out. I was allowed to arrange a time on their schedule, during school hours, to pick up what I could the following day. But right then and there, I had to walk out the door. My social worker offered to drive me to a homeless shelter if I requested it. I turned down the offer. I walked a few miles to a friend of mine's house instead. I remember it was a chilly day, I hadn't worn a jacket home, and wasn't allowed to get my coat to put on before leaving.

When I got to my friends house, his father called my foster father and chewed him out. My foster father said, "[EA] has been relieved of his obligations," and hung up.

At that point, I was homeless. I stayed at various friends houses until I could cobble together a plan. I had a job - I had a job in one form or another since I was 13 - and had the ability to pay my way with this assistance until I went to college.

Occasionally I look up statistics on outcomes of people in the foster care system. It's brutal. The % estimates of persistent homelessness among those formerly in foster care are crazy.

[_Gadianton]

I knew what you meant markk, what I feel you are missing is that aging out of the foster care system was also true for 2015 and 2014 and ....

Are you saying 23% more children aged out of the foster system in 2016 than the previous year?

What you've been showing with your links is the many contributing factors for homelessness going back years and years. Your links aren't accounting for the specific 23% increase for last year.