moksha wrote:Yeah, there are there are some contradictory passages in the Bible that seem almost schizophrenic in nature. On balance, the message of loving one another, forgiving and showing mercy supersedes all the rest. No need to take the harsh dregs of religious thought, when you can embrace the parts which are life-affirming and filled to the brim with the best of human intention.
Moksha, I'm confident that if Moses had commanded you to stone a gay man you wouldn't have done so. You would have refused.
Of Jersey Girl, I can't say the same. She's a hypocrite.
I'm being accused of vicarious murder. How refreshing.
How loving.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Res Ipsa wrote:She does’t believe in murdering gay folks, so why are we even talking about that in relation to her?
She believes in the God of the Old Testament and his prophet Moses who murdered plenty of gay folks. Hence, Jersey Girl is part of the problem. She's just as guilty in my eyes because she esteems a murderer as being divine.
The New Testament doesn't save the Old Testament, neither does it condemn it. They are combined as one in her hand and both bear witness to the same murderous God.
Frankly, I think Jersey Girl is a hypocrite. A Christian hypocrite, mind you. Very typical. Christians make the best hypocrites.
I've already supplied you with one portion of New Testament scripture that refutes your above. Do you need more? I can fill up the thread with it if you like.
That you served as LDS apologists for a number of years, is no guarantee that you understand the purpose of the New Testament and the ministry of Christ.
Obviously.
It's evident throughout your unhinged raving hate posts.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
I’m pretty confident that I don’t need Jesus to be happy. Or to be a good person. I’m also pretty convinced that I haven’t the slightest clue as to what other people might need to be happy. For the first 19 years of my life, I knew what everyone needed to be happy. I’ve tried pretty hard to disabuse myself of that particular conceit.
Whatever it is you need to be happy, I hope you have it. If you don’t, I hope you find it. And the same goes for Jersey Girl. But I leave it to the two of you to figure out for yourselves what you need. If Jersey Girl believes she needs Jesus, who am I to tell her she doesn’t? How the hell would I know.
I enjoy discussing and arguing about beliefs as much as the next guy. But I’m firmly convinced that, if you want to know who someone is, you don’t pay attention to what they believe — you pay attention to what they do. And as far as I can tell, Jersey Girl hasn’t murdered any gay folks. She doesn’t advocate murdering gay folks. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever seen her advocate treating gay folks any differently than she treats me or anyone else. I think the Mormons got something right when they talked about being punished for your own sins and not someone else’s. I’m not going hold Jersey resposible for the sins of some mythological Moses guy or anyone else.
I get the impression that Jersey Girl takes being a good person seriously, and that her faith helps her figure out how to do that and motivates her to get it done. Why in the world would I try to persuade her to give that up? I can’t think of a good reason. And I don’t really care if it takes some mental gymnastics to reconcile Moses and Jesus and two thousand years of gloss with what Jersey Girl believes. I really only care about the results.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Your last statement was well thought out and certainly valid from different points of view.
I have an interest in persuading anyone I can to give up Jesus and start living on their own merits and stand on their own feet without relying on an imaginary friend to rescue them from their sins. Mormons and Christians spend a lot of effort in spreading their so-called gospel and proselytizing the world in trying to get people to accept an imaginary Jesus. That's a fact. I reserve the right to do just the opposite and try and get people to give up the cult and recognize that murder and blood is what their religion was ultimately founded on. You know that Moses threw many a stone and many people suffered at his hands. He was a tyrant and an evil man. He was Jehovah's representative on earth - the head of the cult. Then came Jesus who tried to outdo Moses just like the Mormons came along to try and outdo the Reformation and Catholicism.
I really want Jersey Girl to give up Jesus. I hope she does, someday. I don't pray that she does because I don't pray to imaginary people but I do hope.
Your last statement was well thought out and certainly valid from different points of view.
I have an interest in persuading anyone I can to give up Jesus and start living on their own merits and stand on their own feet without relying on an imaginary friend to rescue them from their sins. Mormons and Christians spend a lot of effort in spreading their so-called gospel and proselytizing the world in trying to get people to accept an imaginary Jesus. That's a fact. I reserve the right to do just the opposite and try and get people to give up the cult and recognize that murder and blood is what their religion was ultimately founded on. You know that Moses threw many a stone and many people suffered at his hands. He was a tyrant and an evil man. He was Jehovah's representative on earth - the head of the cult. Then came Jesus who tried to outdo Moses just like the Mormons came along to try and outdo the Reformation and Catholicism.
I really want Jersey Girl to give up Jesus. I hope she does, someday. I don't pray that she does because I don't pray to imaginary people but I do hope.
Well ya better hope someone who can do a better job of it than you comes along. Why would I take seriously the rants of a man who lacks depth of insight, who is obviously ignorant of scripture, who makes allegations of proclivities to murder, vicarious murder, admits he's attacking in full public view while preaching about love and fulfills Biblical prophecy before my very eyes?
You are a mess, Shulem, and you are a base hypocrite.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Shulem wrote:I have an interest in persuading anyone I can to give up Jesus and start living on their own merits and stand on their own feet without relying on an imaginary friend to rescue them from their sins. Mormons and Christians spend a lot of effort in spreading their so-called gospel and proselytizing the world in trying to get people to accept an imaginary Jesus. That's a fact. I reserve the right to do just the opposite and try and get people to give up the cult and recognize that murder and blood is what their religion was ultimately founded on.
You might want to rethink your methodology if that is your goal.
Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. - Joseph Smith
Shulem wrote:All I have been saying is you don't need Jesus to love others and be loved.
Really. Do you want me to collect up all that you've actually been saying on this thread? I'd include your admission of attacking people, of course. And let's not forget your allegations that at least two posters on this thread (if not the whole of Christianity itself) have murderous proclivities, would actually commit murder, and condone murder of gays.
If you'd like to see the sum total of your "mission" placed in one post, I'm happy to frame it for you as I have time to do so.
Of course you've offered no proof for any of those assertions or allegations. But what of it?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
