Jersey Girl wrote:Read the books and topics I gave you previously.
There are NO same sex equal relationships represented in either the Old Testament or New Testament. Not one.
Give me an official statement from the Catholic church about what Romans 1 means when it comes to God's condemnation of homosexual practice. The Catholic church has over a billion followers so they should have a pretty good idea what the Bible is really saying.
Shut up about the Catholic church. The Catholic church isn't the authority over Christianity. Why are you impressed by numbers? Are you ex-LDS or something? Bigger is better? Oh please how superficial and shallow can one person get?
Get off your LAZY ASS and learn something that could benefit your own societal community.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Who are these people? Every homosexual person on the face of the New Testament earth?
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God,
Who are these people? Every homosexual person of the face of the New Testament earth?
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Those are pagans and you are too lazy to advocate for your own community. My god but you are pathetic.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Dantana wrote:. What are your thoughts on my Question? "If you were to have a modern, mainstream Christian believer explain that they don't believe everything in the Bible is literal, and the parts as to stoning bad guys is certainly written by men, would you still demand they denounce Jesus?"
Jesus was just as guilty as Moses in that he reserved the people of Sodom and Gomorrah for judgment presumably because homosexuality was practiced there. Jesus was cut from the same cloth as Moses but reorganized the cult of Jehovah. Jesus was a big fan of Moses too. Look who Jesus kept company with:
"And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus."
Indeed, Jesus was into Moses. The executions of gays as recorded in the Bible under the direction of Jehovah God didn't bother Jesus one bit. He must have figured they deserved condemnation just like Sodom. Jesus never ever did anything to defend gays.
Shulem, Your presumably about Sodom and Gomorrah is not well founded. Jesus was referring to the fact the cities were destroyed and he was concerned other places who thought themselves safe were not safe. There are a number of ways Jesus suggested people were falling short morally. I do not remember a suggestion from him that their problem was failing to stone homosexuals.
I have been wondering about what was the name of that homosexual that Moses was supposed to have killed. I am uncertain.
I find it hard to know just what Jesus thought about homosexuals. It was not an issue he seemed particularly aware of or discussed. (or his comments were dropped from the tradition because they didn't fit cultural expectations of sufficient condemnation)
Jersey Girl wrote:Shut up about the Catholic church. The Catholic church isn't the authority over Christianity. Why are you impressed by numbers? Are you ex-LDS or something? Bigger is better? Oh please how superficial and shallow can one person get?
Get off your LAZY ASS and learn something that could benefit your own societal community.
The Catholic church was Christianity and the authority of Christianity for a very long time. The Protestant movement apostatized from the Christian church. The LDS religion apostatized from the Protestant movement and today we have a million splinter groups and sects to include your own.
The Catholic church understands the scriptures far better than you, Jersey Girl as do the Orthodox Jews their own Old Testament. You, Jersey Girl, are just a loud mouthed obnoxious Christian militant -- an apostate from traditional Christianity.
Your opinion these days carries little weight with me. I didn't realize you were so dumb.
Shulem,I presume you are full aware that there is little chance that Moses is actually the author of the offending laws you are speaking of. You have already pointed out in response that Moses in terms of history is understood to be represented by that collection of laws put together some 700 years later which we know as the Torah.
Whatever their source they have had an ongoing influence on how people see morality. Yet it is a useful observation to remember that because this law collection represents the collected tradition of hundreds of years of culture its contents grow out of that deeper cultural traditions. That story of accumulation may allow one to notice that the Old Testament is not univocal. Some voices are more wisdom focused, some others believe strict and brutal law is the way to improve society.
In terms of brutality all sorts of crimes get viewed as appropriate targets for capital punishment. The party favoring this view even thinks parents of wayward children should execute them. I thing actual people have treated the demands of this extreme view by ignoring it for a long long time. Other parts of the bad law have been put aside for quite a while. It has probably been more difficult for homosexuals because of deeper cultural disfavor, lack of understanding and suspicion. The matter is in a process of change.
Jersey Girl wrote:Shut up about the Catholic church. The Catholic church isn't the authority over Christianity. Why are you impressed by numbers? Are you ex-LDS or something? Bigger is better? Oh please how superficial and shallow can one person get?
Get off your LAZY ASS and learn something that could benefit your own societal community.
The Catholic church was Christianity and the authority of Christianity for a very long time. The Protestant movement apostatized from the Christian church. The LDS religion apostatized from the Protestant movement and today we have a million splinter groups and sects to include your own.
The Catholic church understands the scriptures far better than you, Jersey Girl as do the Orthodox Jews their own Old Testament. You, Jersey Girl, are just a loud mouthed obnoxious Christian militant -- an apostate from traditional Christianity.
Your opinion these days carries little weight with me. I didn't realize you were so dumb.
You are an intellectual sloth.
The Jewish historian Josephus (AD 37 – c. 100) used the term “Sodomites” in summarizing the Genesis narrative:
“About this time the Sodomites grew proud, on account of their riches and great wealth; they became unjust towards men, and impious towards God, in so much that they did not call to mind the advantages they received from him: they hated strangers, and abused themselves with Sodomitical practices” "Now when the Sodomites saw the young men to be of beautiful countenances, and this to an extraordinary degree, and that they took up their lodgings with Lot, they resolved themselves to enjoy these beautiful boys by force and violence; and when Lot exhorted them to sobriety, and not to offer any thing immodest to the strangers, but to have regard to their lodging in his house; and promised that if their inclinations could not be governed, he would expose his daughters to their lust, instead of these strangers; neither thus were they made ashamed." (Antiquities 1.11.1,3) [8] — c. AD 96)
huckelberry wrote:Shulem,I presume you are full aware that there is little chance that Moses is actually the author of the offending laws you are speaking of. You have already pointed out in response that Moses in terms of history is understood to be represented by that collection of laws put together some 700 years later which we know as the Torah.
Whatever their source they have had an ongoing influence on how people see morality. Yet it is a useful observation to remember that because this law collection represents the collected tradition of hundreds of years of culture its contents grow out of that deeper cultural traditions. That story of accumulation may allow one to notice that the Old Testament is not univocal. Some voices are more wisdom focused, some others believe strict and brutal law is the way to improve society.
In terms of brutality all sorts of crimes get viewed as appropriate targets for capital punishment. The party favoring this view even thinks parents of wayward children should execute them. I thing actual people have treated the demands of this extreme view by ignoring it for a long long time. Other parts of the bad law have been put aside for quite a while. It has probably been more difficult for homosexuals because of deeper cultural disfavor, lack of understanding and suspicion. The matter is in a process of change.
Jersey Girl wrote:Shut up about the Catholic church. The Catholic church isn't the authority over Christianity. Why are you impressed by numbers? Are you ex-LDS or something? Bigger is better? Oh please how superficial and shallow can one person get?
Get off your LAZY ASS and learn something that could benefit your own societal community.
The Catholic church was Christianity and the authority of Christianity for a very long time. The Protestant movement apostatized from the Christian church. The LDS religion apostatized from the Protestant movement and today we have a million splinter groups and sects to include your own.
The Catholic church understands the scriptures far better than you, Jersey Girl as do the Orthodox Jews their own Old Testament. You, Jersey Girl, are just a loud mouthed obnoxious Christian militant -- an apostate from traditional Christianity.
Your opinion these days carries little weight with me. I didn't realize you were so dumb.
Really.
These issues were initially raised to me by a gay ex-Catholic atheist on lds-mormon.com, I'd say oh, about 17 years ago. His comments were the catalyst for my own independent research--the kind of research that you yourself refuse to do.
And you know what? I discovered that he was right.
There's enough there in scripture to cause just about any Christian believer to pull back on their position on what the Bible says about homosexuality, just like it did me.
Do you find it at all odd that I was willing to delve into such research while you yourself are not?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
When I think of all the times and countless hours I've read the Bible thinking that book was true it calls to mind just how gullible we humans can be. Stories, practices, and doctrines of Bible religion continue to feed gullible brains today. What a sorry mess religion and the Bible has made of the world. I believe the world would be so much better without religion and the Bible.
