Man burns alive in Trump owned Building

[_Hawkeye]

Sherrie Corder
@corder_sherrie
·
Apr 8
MORE FAKE NEWS! Were you outraged when a firefighter was killed from a fire while hollyweird was making a movie in an old bar that had NO sprinkler system? You leftist have double standards!

- Doc

Wait, what?

Sherrie is equating 1) a sitting President failing to comment on the death of someone on his property, who only died because he refused to install safety measures with

2) Some obscure bar in Hollywood in which the owner who may or may not be a Republican/Liberal, presumably DID comment and express regret on the death of the fireman and presumably didn't brag about how awesome his bar is?

Sherrie is an idiot.

The outrage, if any actually exists, is with Trump's non response to the fact that someone died in one of his buildings.

[_Hawkeye]

Myths vs facts about home fire sprinklers

When considering home fire sprinkler requirements for your community, it is important to address key myths often raised by sprinkler opponents. The fact is, because automatic fire sprinklers have been commonly used in structures for many years, the evidence is clear that this technology a proven way to protect lives and property against fires. Sprinklers also respond quickly and effectively to the presence of a nearby fire, and function well, without creating problems for homeowners.

https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/C ... s-vs-facts

The civilian death rate per 1,000 reported home fires was 81% lower in homes with sprinklers than in homes with no AES. https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Research/ ... Sprinklers

But according to substupid, sprinklers are a useless waste of money. Here's the part where he goes after me for actually knowing what I'm talking about.

[_Some Schmo]

Yeah, he's an asshole.

And to think this is not even close to his worst offense as a human being.

[_Jersey Girl]

Somewhere in my online travels, I recall reading that Trump sent out the tweet in question before he had a fatality report. I didn't check the time frame on that so I can't verify it.

[_Doctor Steuss]

On a scumbag scale of 1 to Trump, I don’t think this measures above a 2.

Meh.

[Guest]

And Trump's first and only response wasn't to offer condolences the the family of the man who died. No, he didn't even mention him. Instead he goes on to boast about how his buildings are well-built. The reason the man died is because there were no sprinkler systems installed.

Ladies and gentlemen we're talking about the president of the United States. He once said that he could kill somebody on the street and none of his supporters would care. Well, here we are.

CFR on all of this....

because reality seems to disagree with your claim here (shocking!)...

for example, Trump's tweet reads - “Fire at Trump Tower is out,” he wrote. “Very confined (well built building). Firemen (and women) did a great job. THANK YOU!” - which even a dolt understands that context but it takes a bigger dolt to conclude this tweet as "touting".....

care to speculate on the timing for when the tweet was tweeted and when the death was reported?...nah you probably don't...tweet was at 3:42pm and death was reported at 5:30pm....and i suspect your hair-fire started when?

(fyi, sprinklers have not been proven to have ever saved anyone's life from a fire, they usually just destroy the property and provide good sources of revenue for fire officials...now, standpipes are useful.)

Sprinklers are designed to get people out of the building, and to keep it from spreading quicker...not so much to put out a fire. Both wet and dry standpipes are use full I suppose...but again the first thing is to get people out.

Fire sprinkler systems in an old building are very expensive, and ugly and "don't fit" so to speak, so owners tend to fight this...a lot. I deal with it often, and I am dealing with this on a project now in which the owner will lose given the building type and occupancy.

One thing that you have to consider with a FS system is a high rise is the pump system. You have to put a dedicated pump system in that bypasses the main electrical that can pump thousands upon thousands of gallons of water through out the building until the FD can hook up to the FDC to help pump water into the system. The costs would be millions upon millions, and possibly make upgrading the building less likely.

My guess is the building is a type 1 or 2...with sprinkled egress...but only a guess. It is pretty hard to get around FS codes, my guess is that it is perfectly legal unless they greased a fire official, which is very doubtful.

Home owner insurance is actually higher for a sprinkled home, than a none sprinkled home from what I have been told, in that it is more likely to have a line bust and flood the home, than a actual fire.

[_Res Ipsa]

Home owner insurance is actually higher for a sprinkled home, than a none sprinkled home from what I have been told, in that it is more likely to have a line bust and flood the home, than a actual fire.

Not really.

In each state, NAHB obtained data about the practices of the top insurers. In some cases, the data could be obtained from state government departments of insurance. In others, it was necessary to contact insurance companies or individual agencies. Data were compiled on insurers that cumulatively have at least 40% of the market in every state (including DC) except for Hawaii, where the cumulative share covered is 23.6%. [1] Some insurance companies, like State Farm and Allstate, have large market shares in many states, but there are also states where the market is spread more evenly at the top and includes a number of regional companies, particularly in New England. (Table 1)

Although a few of these regional insurance companies such as Indiana Farm Bureau and Kentucky Farm Bureau do not currently offer discounts for fire sprinklers, they are the exceptions. Most insurance companies do offer discounts, most often in the form of a percentage off the basic premium. To qualify for the discount, the sprinkler system has to meet the National Fire Protection Association standard. [2]

Insurance companies generally make a distinction between two types of sprinkler systems: Class A, where automatic sprinklers are installed in all areas including bathrooms, attics, closets, and attached structures; and Class B, where automatic sprinklers are totally or partially omitted in bathrooms, attics, closets, and attached structures. Insurance usually, but not always, offers different discounts for each type of system. Many discounts are in the neighborhood of 10% for Class A sprinkler systems and 5% for Class B systems. In fact, companies like State Farm and Farmers Insurance offer a uniform 10% and 5% in all states except for in North Carolina. [3] Other insurance companies offer different discounts in each state. Among the companies shown in Table 1, the maximum discount is 16% for Class A systems , and 10% for Class B systems. [4]

http://nahbclassic.org/generic.aspx?gen ... ntID=82243

[_subgenius]

Myths vs facts about home fire sprinklers

When considering home fire sprinkler requirements for your community, it is important to address key myths often raised by sprinkler opponents. The fact is, because automatic fire sprinklers have been commonly used in structures for many years, the evidence is clear that this technology a proven way to protect lives and property against fires. Sprinklers also respond quickly and effectively to the presence of a nearby fire, and function well, without creating problems for homeowners.

https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/C ... s-vs-facts

The civilian death rate per 1,000 reported home fires was 81% lower in homes with sprinklers than in homes with no AES. https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Research/ ... Sprinklers

But according to substupid, sprinklers are a useless waste of money. Here's the part where he goes after me for actually knowing what I'm talking about.

Lets ignore the fact tat you are arguing about sprinklers in a mixed-use tower with statistics from residential construction - but, speaking of stupid...asking the NFPA about sprinklers is like asking the NRA about guns. Perhaps you should research the NFIS instead?
Nevertheless, you still have not proven that sprinklers save lives. They certainly have protected property, at times, especially when that property was limited to the building structure...nasty thing about sprinklers and printed paper. But the evidence is not "clear", rather it is muddy by your fallacy of believing that correlation equals causation. See, i could just as easily argue that your "statistic" conclusion for 81% is not due to the sprinkler but rather is due to the fire alarm that is always associated with a sprinkler.
Regardless, your posts are out of their depth here...you know little about this topic and google ain't gonna pinch this one out for ya....truth is...yes, truth as in reality...there is no evidence (clear or foggy) that proves sprinklers save lives...jus saying....but don't take my word for it, research NFIS and believe what every Fire Chief in America says.

[_Res Ipsa]

So, no fire chief in the US belongs to this organization? https://www.iafc.org/about-iafc/positio ... -buildings

[_Res Ipsa]

The UK fire chiefs seem pretty sold on sprinklers. http://www.cfoa.org.uk/download/38472