You don't need Jesus

[_Amore]

Hi Huckelberry,
I’m guessing that you believe that due to the evils in this world, the human sacrifice scapegoat of Jesus is necessary to fulfill justice. Correct me if I misunderstood. I don’t believe that for several reasons.

1. Justice is fulfilled already in the spiritual (& sometimes physical) laws of cause & effect. “He who lives by the sword will die by the sword.”
2. God, as I understand God, would never kick us when we’re down. Suggesting God “requires” human sacrifice scapegoat so we avoid punishment is suggesting God seeks to punish us in addition to the logical and spiritual consequences of our sins.
3. Evil is essentially shifting blame to make another pay... which is human sacrifice scapegoating... and is damning and a lie - keeping us from taking responsibility for what we can and thereby preventing learning & progressing.
4. Not a day goes by when you, me, & every other human being doesn’t sin. “In each of us is a bit of all of us.” I may not sin as a murderer, but I do sin to a much lesser degree but in similar ways - like taking out my stress on someone. Suggesting God cannot stand us as sinful - is damning us all - & is not what God is about. Even if you take the biblical idea, after creating human beings, “God saw that it was very good,” despite our capacity to choose evil. Suggesting that God screwed up in making us as works in progress, negates the idea that “there must needs be opposition in all things” (a.k.a. yin & yang). “What imperfection hates the most is imperfection.”
5. As C Jung (or was it Nietzche?) explained - Christianity, as it became warped, kind-of killed God, pretending that all of the work had already been done was a big deceiving distraction, keeping us from doing the essential work that we need most to do.

I realize that forgiving others and especially oneself can be extremely difficult but it is asked of us regularly. In redefining many gospel terms, I often imagine “God” in place of “Jesus”- it feels better intuitively. Kind of as some Christians might put such impossible burdens on the cross, I try to trust in God that all things will work out, as I do my best to correct my mistakes. Like the Serenity prayer: “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.”

[_huckelberry]

Hi Huckelberry,
I’m guessing that you believe that due to the evils in this world, the human sacrifice scapegoat of Jesus is necessary to fulfill justice. Correct me if I misunderstood. I don’t believe that for several reasons.


5. Christianity, became warped, kind-of killed God, pretending that all of the work had already been done was a big deceiving distraction, keeping us from doing the essential work that we need most to do.

I realize that forgiving others and especially oneself can be extremely difficult but it is asked of us regularly. In redefining many gospel terms, I often imagine “God” in place of “Jesus”- it feels better intuitively. Kind of as some Christians might put such impossible burdens on the cross, I try to trust in God that all things will work out, as I do my best to correct my mistakes.

Amore, I picked out the portions of your statement which I believe I agree with completely. The others I have mixed reactions to. But actually I think these two wherein we agree are the most important.

I do not think the atonement of Jesus makes sense outside of a trinitarian view. It was God dying for a new future for humanity.

[_Amore]

Hi Huckelberry,
Glad we agree on something pretty significant. In a way, Shakespeare’s idea that “a rose by any other name would smell as sweet” applies to all reality - in this case spiritual & religious. When it comes to living life - recognizing the need to live so you have a clean conscience & forgiving self and others, & the need to be healthy in mind, body & spirit - these are universal & only differ in words & related details (ie rituals).

I really believe that “God is no respector of persons” - including religion. What matters is your heart - intention. I can even see wisdom in polytheism- like a primitive form of psych-ology - various gods explaining various moods, priorities etc. Yet, I see the need of prioritizing values, otherwise life is lived haphazardly, thus the idea of one higher GOoD. When I consider God in that way, Atheism is even more absurd. Of course God is also Intelligent Design & the various and mysterious forms of consciousness (I AM THAT I AM).

[Guest]

Amore,
Can you supply one actual bit of physical evidence that directly supports the proposition that there is a god and which is indisputable and not subject to interpretation?

[_Shulem]

Amore,
Can you supply one actual bit of physical evidence that directly supports the propisition that there is a god and which is indisputable and not subject to interpretation?

Good idea. Slap Jesus down on the examination table and let's check it out. I want to see this so-called imaginary Jesus and examine him under the light. If you can't produce an actual person for examination than I submit to you your belief in Jesus is entirely based on faith and in something you hope is true. It's all in your mind. There is nothing real about it that others can examine other than imagining themselves and creating an imaginary friend in their own mind.

As for me, I don't want an imaginary friend. I don't want to play those kind of games. I'm not interested in make believe.

[_SteelHead]

Well, when a person who believes in an imaginary friend for whom 0 actual evidence can be produced calls the default position of not believing in the un evidenced sky daddy absurd, it sets off my irony meter.

[_Shulem]

Well, when a person who believes in an imaginary friend for whom 0 actual evidence can be produced calls the default position of not believing in the un evidenced sky daddy absurd, it sets off my irony meter.

There is absolutely nothing absurd or illogical in not believing in a sky-daddy.

[_Shulem]

ASK YOURSELF A PERSONAL QUESTION:

Can I be happy without Jesus in my life?

[ ] YES
[ ] NO

Do I really need Jesus in my life to be a happy?

[_Res Ipsa]

What if someone is happier having Jesus in their life than they are without?

[_SteelHead]

Res,
How is Jesus in anyone's life? His legacy, teachings (or those attributed to him) - sure.... But tell how Jesus himself is in anyone's life. Please.