Leftist Starbucks finds itself in the sites of liberal ire

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

In EA's bizarro world men who weren't patrons, were trespassing, and belligerent have the right to be assholes on private property.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

In EAllusion's bizarro world men who weren't patrons, were trespassing, and belligerent have the right to be assholes on private property.

- Doc

It is both wrong and illegal if a coffee shop lets white people hang out a short bit waiting for friends to arrive before buying something, but demands black people leave for doing the same. Tellingly, Starbucks isn't disputing any of this and is promising to train better judgment on behalf of its employees.

You have question-begging definition of the word "belligerent."

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

In EA's world white people are guilty, and black people who trespass, are impolite, and not customers of an establishment are victims.



- Doc

[_Jersey Girl]

Bit of a plot twist that I had not read.

Nelson said that he had asked to use the restroom and that an employee informed him it was for paying customers only.

"And I just left it at that."

But the manager didn't.

A police report states the men cursed at the manager after she told them bathrooms are for customers only.

She called 911 to report that the men were not making a purchase and were refusing to leave.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -speak-out


So...if this is true, I think she did have reason to call cops.

[_cinepro]

I recently read an article (can't remember where) about the psychology of confrontation, and it talked about how our brains are wired to get into a certain gear when facing stress, and sometimes it's difficult (if not impossible) to find the "reverse" gear and get back to a more reasonable state.

That sounds like it may have been a big factor here. The manager got on a track of wanting the men to leave (and have their authority respected), and the men were obviously a little upset at being asked to leave when they hadn't done anything. Both sides dig in their heels and the situation escalates out of control.

Instead of (or in addition to) training their employees about racism and treating customers with respect, it might not be a bad idea to teach the managers how to deal with situations like that and recognize when things are escalating and how to dial the situation back.

[_ajax18]

it might not be a bad idea to teach the managers how to deal with situations like that and recognize when things are escalating and how to dial the situation back.

How is that different from just giving in because someone is willing to fight you? Regardless of the persons race, the store either has a right to make people to leave or they don't. One of the things I can't stand about big corporations is that they always give the complainers and PITA customers free stuff. Did you see the black guy go in and ask for free coffee at a Starbucks as a prank over the incident and they were very apologetic and gave it to him? Racism was just a card that was pulled out as a weapon in this case and for the most part it has won the fight for these men.

[_Jersey Girl]

I recently read an article (can't remember where) about the psychology of confrontation, and it talked about how our brains are wired to get into a certain gear when facing stress, and sometimes it's difficult (if not impossible) to find the "reverse" gear and get back to a more reasonable state.

That sounds like it may have been a big factor here. The manager got on a track of wanting the men to leave (and have their authority respected), and the men were obviously a little upset at being asked to leave when they hadn't done anything. Both sides dig in their heels and the situation escalates out of control.

Instead of (or in addition to) training their employees about racism and treating customers with respect, it might not be a bad idea to teach the managers how to deal with situations like that and recognize when things are escalating and how to dial the situation back.

You mean adrenalin driven flight or fight response?

[_ajax18]

It is both wrong and illegal if a coffee shop lets white people hang out a short bit waiting for friends to arrive before buying something, but demands black people leave for doing the same.

I'm not convinced they do that for all white people. I've been asked to make a purchase or leave places. I'm not treated differently because I'm white. The difference is that I recognize the store's right to demand this and simply make a purchase or leave rather than getting feisty and saying my civil rights were violated.

[_Gadianton]

It's extraordinarily unusual for a manager to question a "non-paying" customer for just about anything, in any chain restaurant, and especially at a Starbucks. On rare occasion I'll hit and run a restroom and no manager is ever going to question me over it. Why? Because I might not be a customer on that afternoon, but do the 500 burgers I've ordered on other occasions or other locations count for anything? And if not that, what does it look like for the other customers? For their image?

I'm not a huge Starbucks customer, but there have been occasions where I'd work from Starbucks for the morning on my laptop. I'm sure the 1.70$ on a small darkroast made it all worth their while, in exchange for the several hours of wifi use. Okay, i might also get a breakfast sandwich too. But as I understand it, these two guys had only been at the store two minutes before there was a problem. When I'd set up, I'd get things going, and wait for a shorter line or whatever, and so it would be some time before I'd actually order anything. I've certainly been there a half hour or longer before ordering.

At burger and taco shops, I can't count the number of time skater punks have walked in with their boards, got a free cup of water, cooled off and left. I've never seen anyone turned down for a water or questioned for bathroom use, or spoken to for loitering without paying at any restaurant ever. The diciest issue i've seen was at a Del Taco, where a homeless guy was hanging out in a booth for quite some time and he was on the abrasive side, and the young manager would hover around his table and ask him questions; kind of "containing" him. she blew my mind with the way she handled it, until finally he left on his own. On that particular episode I wouldn't have blamed a manager from calling it in, but I imagine from the restaurants perspective they'd rather not take the risk of making a questionable scene worse for the other customers.

The only restaurants I've been in where I can imagine walk-in questioned for getting something for nothing are ma and pop shops where the owner feels the pain of every penny lost and his business is really personal. Not at a chain -- that's a PR problem waiting to happen.

[_EAllusion]

I've been asked to make a purchase or leave places. I'm not treated differently because I'm white. The difference is that I recognize the store's right to demand this and simply make a purchase or leave rather than getting feisty and saying my civil rights were violated.

It's a Starbucks.