another mass shooting

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_DoubtingThomas
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Re: another mass shooting

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

Jersey Girl wrote: These kids are primarily out for revenge. They're ostracized and polarized in their own peer group. Do you ever ask yourself why?


You make a very good point Jersey Girl. Society is part of the problem. I view nature as our true enemy and science is our only hope. Our country is not very interested in fighting school bullying. There is no MeToo for bullied victims.
_DoubtingThomas
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Re: another mass shooting

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

A student reports, ""I know he's picked on by coaches and other students. He didn't really talk to anyone," he told the station. "My friends from the football team told me that coaches said he smelled, like, right in front of his face. And other kids would look at him and laugh at him ... nothing like physical but they still emotionally bullied him.""

Jersey Girl is completely right. And notice how the coaches won't spend a single day in jail.
_moksha
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Re: another mass shooting

Post by _moksha »

What if we were somehow able to identify upcoming shooters and put them on the analyst's couch preemptively?
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_subgenius
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Re: another mass shooting

Post by _subgenius »

Quasimodo wrote:We're just dumb, I guess.

don't guess, prove it to us.

Quasimodo wrote:On the other hand, stress and psychological problems pretty much exist world wide in similar numbers (especially in adolescents).

see? I knew you could prove it.
now, CFR.

Quasimodo wrote:The difference in the US may be the accessibility of guns.

doubtful. For example, plenty of gun store owners have hella access...
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_canpakes
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Re: another mass shooting

Post by _canpakes »

Jersey Girl wrote:If this kid didn't have access to his father's goddamn gun, he likely would have committed suicide.

Jersey Girl, please elaborate. If he had access to enough firearms to kill 9 other people, then he started with enough to cut to the chase and commit suicide first.
_honorentheos
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Re: another mass shooting

Post by _honorentheos »

When the NRA gets behind laws that hold gun owners accountable when their weapons are used to commit crimes you can start in on arguing who else needs accountability or that access is a non-issue. Until then it's just deflecting from the obvious.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
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_Res Ipsa
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Re: another mass shooting

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Or, maybe it’s the guns. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ns/560771/

And maybe the 70% of Americans who don’t own guns will realize that they can do something about it.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

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_Jersey Girl
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Re: another mass shooting

Post by _Jersey Girl »

canpakes wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:If this kid didn't have access to his father's goddamn gun, he likely would have committed suicide.

Jersey Girl, please elaborate. If he had access to enough firearms to kill 9 other people, then he started with enough to cut to the chase and commit suicide first.


Exactly what I stated. Take the guns out of the picture entirely. Read my above in the context in which it was written.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: another mass shooting

Post by _Jersey Girl »

DoubtingThomas wrote:A student reports, ""I know he's picked on by coaches and other students. He didn't really talk to anyone," he told the station. "My friends from the football team told me that coaches said he smelled, like, right in front of his face. And other kids would look at him and laugh at him ... nothing like physical but they still emotionally bullied him.""

Jersey Girl is completely right. And notice how the coaches won't spend a single day in jail.


The common thread is mental illness. Depression, anxiety and untreated mental illness--undiagnosed or diagnosed. Polarization, ostracizing, bullying, low self worth, poor self image, chronically crappy family life, abuse, etc., and the onset of mental illnesses such as bipolar disorder, schizophrenia.

That's just off the top of my head.

Young females are more likely to attempt or complete to commit suicide via overdose.
Young males are more likely to attempt or complete suicide via hanging, carbon monoxide (their cars) or firearms.

This kid had access to his father's legally owned firearms. Without that access and the ability to turn his rage outward, he likely would have attempted suicide via the methods stated above.

Imagine that there are two piles of bodies. One is the result of mass shootings. The other is the result of teen suicide.

Which pile do you think is larger?

This society is failing to address the root causes of it's children's self-slaughter. Why?

It's too damn hard.

It's far easier for us to be shocked by a mass shooting. Bitch and moan about gun control, than it is to look at that other pile of bodies from teen suicide.

Isn't it time that we woke the hell up and paid real attention to what is happening to our children instead of having this repetitious political back and forth over gun control?

Listen, I would love to see increased measures in terms of gun control. More than that, I would like to see us as a nation take a look at why our youth are resorting to suicide and start chipping away at solutions. We're NOT doing it.

The common thread here isn't guns. In cases of mass shootings, guns are only the HOW. In all cases of teen external destructive behaviors such as mass shootings and self destruction--suicide, the WHY is typically mental illness.

The shootings are a symptom of the WHY.
The suicides are a symptom of the WHY.

Take the guns out of the scenario. Do you think our youth will stop harming themselves? Do you think the pile of bodies from suicide will decrease?

My answer to both questions is "No".
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Jersey Girl
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Re: another mass shooting

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Res Ipsa wrote:Or, maybe it’s the guns. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ns/560771/


The article begins as follows:

Americans of high-school age are 82 times more likely to die from a gun homicide than 15- to 19-year-olds in the rest of the developed world.


The article says nothing about suicide rates, does it? Here's the CDC stats from 2014. These are the most currently posted stats I can locate on the website. According to the 2014 stats, teen suicide rates outnumber teen homicides.

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc-ch ... 0w760h.gif

Do you think that the number of students killed in mass shootings is significantly higher than those who died from complete suicide?

Is it the guns or mental illness? Which is the more likely explanation?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
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