Swamp Watch News

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
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_Some Schmo
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Re: Swamp Watch News

Post by _Some Schmo »

ajax18 wrote:We can add a sitting president wiretapping and sending spies into the campaign of the opposition candidate without a search warrant to your swamp watch.

This is why there's no point talking to you. You willingly believe easy to debunk BS. You have no interest in what's real, only interest in what forwards the nonsense you want to believe.

You are pointless, and an incurable imbecile.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Themis
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Re: Swamp Watch News

Post by _Themis »

ajax18 wrote:Clapper: 'Good Thing' If FBI Spied on Trump Campaign

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/james ... 743a26221b

I expected you guys to follow Clapper's apologetics. The New York Times has already admitted that the Obama administration wiretapped the Trump campaign and sent spies/informants in.


Clapper says here "But if an intelligence agent was "observing" Trump campaign officials' interactions with Russia, "that's a good thing because the Russians posed a threat to the very basis of our political system."

Would you agree with Clapper here even if it had been the Hillary Campaign? Is it not the job of intelligence community to keep tabs on Russian officials?
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_ajax18
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Re: Swamp Watch News

Post by _ajax18 »


Would you agree with Clapper here even if it had been the Hillary Campaign? Is it not the job of intelligence community to keep tabs on Russian officials?


As it turns out, it was Hillary Clinton who colluded with Russia.

The secret orders used to bypass the need for a warrant need to be more limited.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_EAllusion
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Re: Swamp Watch News

Post by _EAllusion »

ajax18 wrote:

Would you agree with Clapper here even if it had been the Hillary Campaign? Is it not the job of intelligence community to keep tabs on Russian officials?


As it turns out, it was Hillary Clinton who colluded with Russia.

The secret orders used to bypass the need for a warrant need to be more limited.


I wish I knew if you were cynically saying this because you imagine yourself as a soldier dedicated to disinformation warfare on behalf of your dear leader or if you are this thoroughly duped by disinformation from your preferred sources.
_Themis
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Re: Swamp Watch News

Post by _Themis »

ajax18 wrote:

Would you agree with Clapper here even if it had been the Hillary Campaign? Is it not the job of intelligence community to keep tabs on Russian officials?


As it turns out, it was Hillary Clinton who colluded with Russia.

The secret orders used to bypass the need for a warrant need to be more limited.


It's my understanding Putin does not like Hillary so why would Russia collude with her? Does she have lots of business dealings and owe Russians lots of money as Trump does?
Last edited by Guest on Mon May 21, 2018 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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_EAllusion
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Re: Swamp Watch News

Post by _EAllusion »

There are two versions of "Hillary colluded with Russia."

The first is the the Hillary campaign paid for opposition research started by a Republican primary opponent of Trump by a British national that, obviously, relied on Russian sources to get information about Russian infiltration into the Trump campaign.

This argument relies on equivocation of what it means to "collude with Russia." It's also so dumb that you are probably stupider for having read it.

The second is that Hillary Clinton, while secretary of State, orchestrated a clandestine effort to sell US uranium to the Russian government. This one relies on a bevy of misunderstandings about what occurred, but suffice it to say, it's not "colluding with Russia" so much as ordinary government work. This one has been around since before election, but it has had several iterations re-injected into the media by right-wing propaganda as an explosive development.

The next argument Ajax is now relying on is the fact that the FBI, in an effort to protect the Trump campaign, sent an informant to speak with members of the Trump camp to gather information on possible Russian infiltration into the campaign that we now know happened. The Trump camp was warned about this, which is ironic given that we now know that the Trump camp was actively courting Russian aid. Likewise, Trump campaign officials had clandestine conversations with people on the Russian end that were under US surveillance and those conversations were incidentally picked up as a result of that. This isn't planting a spy, wiretapping the campaign, or anything of the sort. That's misrepresenting ordinary counterintelligence. The scandalous thing about this is the the Trump campaign was crawling with people with illicit and illegal dealings with Russia necessitating counterintelligence operations that would pick them up.

Given what we now know, the Trump camp probably should've been wiretapped and much more aggressive spying was warranted if we knew then what we know now, but that ship has sailed.

The fun thing about the conspiracy theory Ajax is weaving is it requires you to believe that the FBI, which repeatedly interjected itself into the 2016 campaign in ways that were highly damaging to Clinton and ultimately cost her the election, secretly had it out for Trump instead even though they kept the investigation into Russian ties with Trump campaign figures they were performing hidden from the public. In fact, rogue FBI agents leaks to the NYT that the FBI sees no link between the Trump camp and Russia, which dutifully reported that. We now know that that story was false. That story alone could've cost Clinton the election.

So we're to believe the FBI that was targeting Trump and their grand plan to get him was to kneecap his opponent, conceal damaging information about him, then some time down the road release false, derogatory information after he was president? Sure thing.
_EAllusion
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Re: Swamp Watch News

Post by _EAllusion »

On what I'm sure it is a random tangent, here's some recent research showing a strong correlation between affinity for social intolerance among whites and declining support for American democracy as well as increased support for anti-democratic governments:

https://github.com/svmiller/woi/blob/master/woi.pdf
_Themis
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Re: Swamp Watch News

Post by _Themis »

EAllusion wrote:On what I'm sure it is a random tangent, here's some recent research showing a strong correlation between affinity for social intolerance among whites and declining support for American democracy as well as increased support for anti-democratic governments:

https://github.com/svmiller/woi/blob/master/woi.pdf


I suspect Ajax cares so much about keeping nonwhite people out of the US and getting rid of as many as possible in the US that he would willingly give up democratic rule.
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_Hawkeye
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Re: Swamp Watch News

Post by _Hawkeye »

_ajax18
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Re: Swamp Watch News

Post by _ajax18 »

The fun thing about the conspiracy theory Ajax is weaving is it requires you to believe that the FBI, which repeatedly interjected itself into the 2016 campaign in ways that were highly damaging to Clinton and ultimately cost her the election, secretly had it out for Trump instead even though they kept the investigation into Russian ties with Trump campaign figures they were performing hidden from the public.


The Russians were always against the candidate they thought would win. At first this was Hillary Clinton. Just a week after the election Russia was sponsoring anti Trump protests.

Comey only relased the information on Hillary that was so "damaging," because the deep state was sure Hillary would win anyway. It helped in the cover up of wiretapping and Hillary Clinton' Russian collusion so as not to make them look biased.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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