US Citizens Detained for Speaking Spanish

[_Themis]

What language do most illegal immigrants speak? It's not Danish. Speaking Spanish should sound as suspicious to a border patrol officer as wearing a turban into an airport security line.

That's very racist of you. Wearing a turban into an airport security line should not cause any suspicion. Turban's like all clothing are subject to security checks. Millions of Americans speak Spanish fluently so obviously it should be not reasonable suspicion of being an illegal immigrant. Millions of Spanish speaking people have legal status like green cards, and millions of Spanish speaking people visit the US as tourists every year.

Hawkeye had no problem with the IRS targeting people just for belonging to the Tea Party and espousing a political ideology of smaller government and lower taxes.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

That's kind of funny because most notable tax cheats i.e. Al Sharpton, Melissa Harris Perry, Charlie Rangel, are all liberal Democrats.

Are you suggesting we cannot find any tax cheats in the Republican party?

[_ajax18]

That's very racist of you.

We've sacrificed common sense in law enforcement upon the altar of political correctness for too long. It's not just me who is tired of it or refuses to be bullied by words like racism. I don't care if you think its racist. I want the border enforced in the most efficient way possible.

Should we stop and frisk grandma or an Arabic Muslim man? Hey lets do full body cavity searches on everyone so we can make everyone late for their flights because picking out people more likely to be terrorists would be racist. It will make the cost of an airline ticket go up twice as much but that's what me must do. People who don't like undergoing scrutiny because of the reputation earned by those in their group need to blame the people who make those stereotypes true.

Are you suggesting we cannot find any tax cheats in the Republican party?

I'm sure you can. I'm suggesting that at least 50% or more tax cheats are Democrats. Yet the IRS specifically targeted conservatives and Kevin said, "Why the hell wouldn't they," since conservatives believe taxes should be lower.

[_Themis]

We've sacrificed common sense in law enforcement upon the altar of political correctness for too long. It's not just me who is tired of it or refuses to be bullied by words like racism. I don't care if you think its racist. I want the border enforced in the most efficient way possible.

You are racist by your own admission on storm-front. It's also not more efficient and you being a racist you don't care if they target Latino's, Blacks, Muslim's, as long as they don't target you. You are not even smart enough to know that Muslim's don't wear turban's.

Should we stop and frisk grandma or an Arabic Muslim man?

If one wants to be an effective terrorist they can dress up as grandma or grandpa. They already will pick on brown people more then others, and they don't pick on grandma very much, but to ignore them would be unwise. It would then communicate a weakness in screening for terrorist's or other criminal activity like smuggling drugs. You do know that grandma's are known to smuggle things like drugs? One of the reason's they do random check's is to avoid bias and creation of weak points in screening. Also, everyone has to some some basic screening.

Hey lets do full body cavity searches on everyone so we can make everyone late for their flights because picking out people more likely to be terrorists would be racist.

They already look for things like behaviors that are more reliable, and Muslim's are more law abiding people then your average American. So if you want more effective you would want to screen them less.

I'm sure you can. I'm suggesting that at least 50% or more tax cheats are Democrats. Yet the IRS specifically targeted conservatives and Kevin said, "Why the hell wouldn't they," since conservatives believe taxes should be lower.

Do you have numbers for this or is it just something you want to believe? At least 50% would mean republicans are just as bad.

[_subgenius]

How would you feel, subby, if someone detained you merely for speaking English while visiting some other country?

wow...the "how would you FEEL" defense...nice.
How would I feel if I was subject to law(s)?...gee, your honor, I would feel the same as I do in my country when I am subject to law(s).

And spare me the "feel" road to legislation, that pavement tends to turn icy and leads to high cliffs.

Also, note that for the first 10 years of my public school education I was the only not-white skinned kid, so I have had my share of adolescent feelings...just like the fat kid, the poor kid, the funny haircut kid, and the other kids....but mine has always been more of a double-agent experience - but i digress.

Thanks for asking!

[_Themis]

How would you feel, subby, if someone detained you merely for speaking English while visiting some other country?

wow...the "how would you FEEL" defense...nice.
How would I feel if I was subject to law(s)?...gee, your honor, I would feel the same as I do in my country when I am subject to law(s).

And spare me the "feel" road to legislation, that pavement tends to turn icy and leads to high cliffs.

Also, note that for the first 10 years of my public school education I was the only not-white skinned kid, so I have had my share of adolescent feelings...just like the fat kid, the poor kid, the funny haircut kid, and the other kids....but mine has always been more of a double-agent experience - but i digress.

Thanks for asking!

How about tell us how speaking Spanish in Montana makes it reasonable to suspect one is illegally in the US?

[_subgenius]

All we are looking at is what we know which is only this factor of speaking Spanish.

But it is not just speaking Spanish, the agent clearly states that it because speaking it in that area...you cannot honestly consider this without that blatant fact.

If other factors come forward we can discuss them then.

or you could still ignore them.

I disagree that it is an unusual activity in Montana. Latino population is in the 10's of thousands in a state with only 1 million people.

True, but this event happened in Havre which only has about 245 Hispanic/Latin population and even if we assume that everyone of those 245 is an adult that is capable of speaking Spanish we understand that your assumed State stat of about 4% drops to about 2.5%...and either of these percentages are reasonably considered low....and reasonably create the possibility that hearing Spanish being spoken in Havre would be an infrequent occurrence.

It's an activity that happens there all the time in many languages.

No it is not...cite the demographics of Havre and then move your goalposts. Besides, the agent's claim that Spanish is not heard around there much is a valid claim that is backed up by reality (a.k.a. facts). So, the real question is whether such a rare and/or unusual circumstance is suspicious....at least suspicious enough to justify a inquiry insamuch as that inquiry is allowed by law.

Especially at gas stations where people traveling stop all the time.

We are talking about a specific gas station at a specific gas station and within a specific jurisdictional distance from a border...your argument here, while not good, may better justify the agent's suspicions because - as you would admit - a gas station near a border would seem to get lots of "traffic", including traffic from those illegally crossing the border...i would suspect (by using your logic) that near any border is the higher occurrence of illegal activity with regards to ICE concerns.

Now how does an unusual activity of speaking Spanish, which it really is not, provide evidence that a criminal violation has taken place? You have avoided this question.

Naw, I have answered it more than once (and in Havre, clearly speaking Spanish in public is unusual) - but in this particular circumstance it is evidence that the person(s) may be in the country illegally, because even with an occurrence of tourist traffic your premise is that it is uncommon to hear a foreign language spoken in that area, which creates a "believable" circumstance that the foreigner may not be a citizen and/or legal entrant - and being in the country illegally is a criminal violation.

[_subgenius]

How about tell us how speaking Spanish in Montana makes it reasonable to suspect one is illegally in the US?

dude, i have done that...twice now...but thanks for insisting i answer...maybe you could answer the question upthread i asked of you?
viewtopic.php?p=1123910#p1123910

[_Themis]

All we are looking at is what we know which is only this factor of speaking Spanish.

But it is not just speaking Spanish, the agent clearly states that it because speaking it in that area...you cannot honestly consider this without that blatant fact.

I haven't ignored that factor, and even addressed it many times trying to get you to address it. You bring up that even that town will have some Latino people which means Spanish is something other people in town will hear from time to time. It provides no evidence to suspect they are not American or in the US illegally.

or you could still ignore them.

I cannot address what has not been shown to exists yet. They have video in which they ask him and he only gives speaking Spanish in an area you don't here it often. If he had better reasons he would have given them instead of his lame excuse.

No it is not...cite the demographics of Havre and then move your goalposts. Besides, the agent's claim that Spanish is not heard around there much is a valid claim that is backed up by reality (a.k.a. facts). So, the real question is whether such a rare and/or unusual circumstance is suspicious....at least suspicious enough to justify a inquiry insamuch as that inquiry is allowed by law.

Stop trolling. You know we are using a vague term and I haven't disagreed with him saying it is not heard much. You know I disagree that it provides any reasonable ground to suspect they are not American or in the US illegally, and you have avoided explaining how speaking a language creates reasonable ground a crime has occurred.

We are talking about a specific gas station at a specific gas station and within a specific jurisdictional distance from a border...your argument here, while not good, may better justify the agent's suspicions because - as you would admit - a gas station near a border would seem to get lots of "traffic", including traffic from those illegally crossing the border...i would suspect (by using your logic) that near any border is the higher occurrence of illegal activity with regards to ICE concerns.

Proximity does not create reasonable grounds they are doing anything wrong, and it's close to the Canadian border. I doubt border agents are stopping anyone speaking french close to the border with Quebec.

Naw, I have answered it more than once (and in Havre, clearly speaking Spanish in public is unusual) - but in this particular circumstance it is evidence that the person(s) may be in the country illegally, because even with an occurrence of tourist traffic your premise is that it is uncommon to hear a foreign language spoken in that area, which creates a "believable" circumstance that the foreigner may not be a citizen and/or legal entrant - and being in the country illegally is a criminal violation.

I asked you how it is evidence the person may be in the country illegally and you haven't answered this. Someone there could be wearing a shirt with a Canadian flag on it making you think they may be Canadian, but that does not establish reasonable grounds they are Canadian or that they are in the US illegally.

maybe you could answer the question upthread i asked of you?
viewtopic.php?p=1123910#p1123910

I already said there could be other factors, but when asked he did not give any. I'm sure there can be many factors that could give him probable cause to stop one and check there status. Speaking another language is just not one of them.

[_Jersey Girl]

You are racist by your own admission on storm-front.

I remember that happening, but I don't recall the exact circumstance. Who posted those here and why?

[_Hawkeye]

dude, i have done that...twice now...but thanks for insisting i answer...maybe you could answer the question upthread i asked of you?

You've done nothing but reaffirm your status as the village idiot. Speaking a foreign language does not warrant detainment. It never has. It doesn't matter if it is the "predominant" language in the area. Jesus H. Christ, imagine the thousands of missionaries serving in Spanish speaking missions who are told to speak Spanish to each other every day in California and other border states. How many cases of ICE agents stopping them to demand their immigration status. It never happens. Why? Because they profile according to race, not language.