Swamp Watch News

[_Gunnar]

His point is that it is ok for Russia to influence US elections and democracies because the US has influenced some other countries. Hopefully you would be a not agree with that point because it is wrong. No one is arguing the US has never influenced some elections or overthrown certain governments in history, and seems to have made things worse all to often for them and the US.

Yes, I do realize that was the point subby was trying to make, and I do agree with you his point is wrong. The Russian attempts to covertly interfere with and subvert our government and election processes is not made any less grievious merely because our own government has on occasion done as bad or even worse things.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

So, real quick because I'm heading back tk the Devil's Anus in a few minutes. I had to share because this really underscores what I'm talking about in the above post.

I was just downstairs gathering breakfast for my wife, it's her b-day today, and I was chatting with the counter agent about the storms that passed through and hiking on the trail. She's a woman, probably in her 50s, I think she said she something about the nor'easters in March and said this almost verbatim:

"I don't know but they were saying the government could actually be controlling the weather shrugs anything's possible! Laughs".

Yeah. So...

I didn't say much after that, I was just so dumbfounded that in the short span of time it takes to make a plate of food I managed to have a conversation that went from zero to a shallow baseless conspiracy that not only implies the government can actually control the weather but uses that power to send nor'easters barreling through US territory. And you KNOW these are the same kinds of people that you try to have an actual, serious conversation about politics you'll get the cookie cutter "I don't talk about politics/Ahh they're all liars/corrupt/liars anyways".

This is the demographic that want to treat politics like a dirty word but that's only because in order to even dip your toes in politics means actually facing facts, it requires coming within at least a lightyear's length of reality. It requires even a basic knowledge of any actual politicians, it requires even a third-grade level understanding of our country's history, laws, and government and how it operates.

That's too much thinking and retaining of information, though. They'll just unironically blame the government for natural disasters instead, that's much easier. And Trump along with his Russian consortium pandered to them.

- Doc

[_subgenius]

His point is that it is ok for Russia to influence US elections and democracies because the US has influenced some other countries.

No, the point here is - physician heal thyself.

Hopefully you would be a not agree with that point because it is wrong.

No one is arguing the US has never influenced some elections or overthrown certain governments in history, and seems to have made things worse all to often for them and the US.

No, the argument here is - physician heal thyself.

and the larger point is that interference does not equal influence...and currently, the best you can argue is that Russia attempted to interfere with the election....more likely they simply did what candidates do every election, released bias, slanted, and often incorrect stories into the cluttered and tangled media-sphere....all with no real influence on an election, because it is more effective and more believable that hair-fire was the goal...a goal which you have obliged for well over a year now.

[_subgenius]

...parse out geopolitics...

which you seem to manifest by cherry-picking through whatever partisan the hair-fire du jour. When you furiously google specific support for your bias blather it becomes more evident how convenient your memory and morality have become. For example, when you talk about how broad the failure has been for public education to teach even the most fundamental aspects of our Constitution and government - I can't help but notice those lacking in posts like yours here. So, while your myopia will only see that Trump did business with Russia, you fail to notice that doing business with Russia is not a partisan practice...from the massive "donations" to the Clinton Foundation, to the Republican/Democrat partnerships in Russian election campaigns your posts seeks only to agitate and insult - all in the name of some fraudulent self-serving "higher" political ground.
Geez...Cura te ipsum

[_Hawkeye]

and the larger point is that interference does not equal influence...and currently, the best you can argue is that Russia attempted to interfere with the election....more likely they simply did what candidates do every election, released bias, slanted, and often incorrect stories into the cluttered and tangled media-sphere....all with no real influence on an election, because it is more effective and more believable that hair-fire was the goal...a goal which you have obliged for well over a year now.

Have to love how the Right Wing mantra is in constant backpedal mode. First there was no interference at all they insisted, and when it is proved that there was, they have to shift their ground and say, "OK but they were trying to get Hillary elected!" And then when it is proved they were trying to get Trump elected, they shift their ground again and say, "OK, but prove to me that interference influenced the election!"

It is the stuff for pure idiots obviously, as all the interference involved was geared to influence the election. That's the whole point behind Putin's sophisticated, well oiled interference campaign. And they got exactly what they wanted. Their frequent past guest who urinates on their hookers and compromises our National Security because he is too stupid to know what the hell he's doing. But none of this is evidence for subgenius, who is too stupid to understand what evidence is.

[_moksha]

Subgenius, before I forget, is that coat from an Edward Gorey drawing? Does it symbolize something such as Republicanism?

[_Themis]

His point is that it is ok for Russia to influence US elections and democracies because the US has influenced some other countries.

No, the point here is - physician heal thyself.

That was your point in your trolling attempt to distract attention from the fact the Russians interfered with the election to get Trump elected. I know you well enough to know you would be very upset if Russia had interfered in support of Hillary. The difference between us is I would still be upset regardless of who Russia interfered to support. The reason is it is an attack on countries democracy. I'm not fine with the US interfering with other countries democracies.

and the larger point is that interference does not equal influence...and currently, the best you can argue is that Russia attempted to interfere with the election....more likely they simply did what candidates do every election, released bias, slanted, and often incorrect stories into the cluttered and tangled media-sphere....all with no real influence on an election, because it is more effective and more believable that hair-fire was the goal...a goal which you have obliged for well over a year now.

You admit they attempted, but what to say they had no affect. LOL So they did like other candidates. Those candidates must suck if they spend all this money on ineffective messaging. You really have some of the worst arguments.

[_EAllusion]

Donald Trump is doing generational damage to US international alliances in a way that benefits Russian interest in expanding its sphere of influence and weakening NATO. This certainly is something Russia might want out of a US president and Trump doesn't need to actively agree to do this in a quid pro quo in order for it to be in Russian interests to have had him elected. He can just be a useful idiot. They probably succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

[_EAllusion]

If I understand Ajax correctly, the FBI sending an lifelong Republican informant to meet a couple of times with George Papadopolous to see if he could get information about him possibly being compromised by Russia, because the FBI was already in possession of information pointing to him being compromised by Russia, constitutes the FBI essentially having a spy implanted into the Trump campaign to disrupt and undermine it. This remains true even though the FBI warned the Trump campaign about their counterintelligence findings indicating Russian attempts to infiltrate their campaign.

At the same time, however, when it was announced that Papadopolous pled guilty to a small charge in a plea deal to cooperate with the Mueller investigation and that he was indeed likely involved in illicit dealings with Russia, the Trump camp said that he basically had no affiliation with the campaign and was more or less just a coffee boy that was barely noticed.

Which is it?

[_Brackite]

EPA has spent more than $3.5 million on Pruitt's security in first year in office

The Environmental Protection Agency confirmed Friday that it has spent more than $3.5 million on Administrator Scott Pruitt's security team since taking office, significantly more than his two predecessors.

As more ethical questions prompted investigations into the cost of Pruitt's security detail and travel, members of Congress have questioned whether the increased spending was justified.


The agency says that Pruitt needed 24/7 security – more than previous administrators – in response to an "unprecedented number of threats" against him. Because of the threats, the EPA says, Pruit and his security team needed to fly first class and the total includes those costs.

Documents released by the EPA show that the agency spent more than $2.7 million on payroll for the administrator's security detail between April 2017 and March 2018 and nearly $760,000 on travel for his detail during the same 12 months.