Trump's War on Children

[_Jersey Girl]

Okay Hawkeye. Let me get up some questions here in the hopes of facilitating a discussion. Keep in mind as you read and respond that I am not commenting in support of the administration. I am posing questions as a child advocate and hoping that I will raise issues that haven't been yet considered on this thread.

That said...

1. Given the fact that Jeff Sessions announced on May 7th of this year, that all those who crossed the border illegally (without appropriate documentation) accompanied by minor children, would be separated from the children, do you agree or disagree that when adults chose to cross the border without documentation and accompanied by minor children, effectively chose separation for those children?

2. When adults crossing the border with minor children without proof of their relationship to the child(ren), is it your position that the children should remain with the adults and where do you contend they should be housed as families?

3. Is it your preference that children (undocumented relationships again) be housed and detained in adult detention shelters where they are exposed to adult conversations and behaviors 24/7, and perhaps unhealthy living conditions (think disease) with no services intended to meet their needs (possible exception of food/nutrition/bathroom) while the government goes through the process of screening both adults and children?

4. Do you believe that at least some adults (undocumented) who cross the border accompanied by minor children are not actually related to the children and could be using them as cover for less than stellar purposes? If so, how would suggest that the government determine that and where would you prefer the children to be housed and accommodated during that process?

Pick one or all of those and let's go. And anyone else who has something to contribute of course.

[_Jersey Girl]

When someone shows up at the border with a child, how do you determine whether the individual is actually a parent? And what should you do with them while you try to figure it out?

DNA testing.

How do you guarantee with 100% surety that the person claiming to be a parent or other relative isn't part of a trafficking scheme?

You can't.

[_Res Ipsa]

The DNA testing seems reasonable to me. What should be done with the child while waiting for the test result? And what should be done with the child if the adults aren't the parents?

If we can't guarantee that a person who volunteers to sponsor an unaccompanied minor isn't part of a trafficking scheme, then what should we do with unaccompanied minors that cross the border illegally?

[_Chap]

How do you guarantee with 100% surety that the person claiming to be a parent or other relative isn't part of a trafficking scheme?

You can't.

Yup. In situations of practical judgement, 100% certainty is almost never on offer. But that fact does not dispense us from making the best decision we can on the basis of the practically available information - even if we may turn out to be wrong.

And if you do turn out to be wrong because of the way the chances break, and some wise guy or journalist in search of a story says 'So do agree you made the wrong decision?', the answer should be 'No. I took the decision that would, 90% of the time, have been the decision that led to a favorable outcome. Give me the same information, and I'd decide the same way again.'

[_Jersey Girl]

I chose to join this thread because of course I've been trying to follow the children and recently had a conversation about this elsewhere. I believe there is a certain level of hysteria going on with regard to how we are being given and receive information regarding the plight of children crossing the border with adults whose relationship has yet to be determined. That is to say, when I read the headlines, I see an appeal to emotion that does little to provide for the well being of displaced children. The effects of that appeal to emotion are splattered all over this thread.

The DNA testing seems reasonable to me.

DNA testing was provided for years ago and not used consistently or effectively. DNA testing is the one way that relationships and parentage can be determined.

What should be done with the child while waiting for the test result?

They should be separated from adults and accommodated in facilities that provide the least restrictive environment such as the Texas Walmart with blackened out windows. The same Walmart that a congressmen went ape crap about when he was prevented from entering it and THAT'S about all anyone typically knows about the Walmart facility. We are being fed half assed reports and we're eating it up like it's our daily bread. Because we (the collective we) don't know any better and in spite of our claimed concerns about children, we're too goddamned lazy to find out otherwise.

And what should be done with the child if the adults aren't the parents?

If a blood relative cannot be located and confirmed in the US, the children should be under the custody of social services and placed in foster care unless and until they can be provided for in some other way.

If we can't guarantee that a person who volunteers to sponsor an unaccompanied minor isn't part of a trafficking scheme, then what should we do with unaccompanied minors that cross the border illegally?

Same as my above.

Now let me say this. No one wants to see children separated from their parents by a government. What we wish were the case is not the case. When Jeff Sessions announced last month that this would happen, and when adults chose to bring minor children with them across our borders, they chose separation for the children. It's up to our government to provide for the health and well being for those children and housing them in adult detention centers with related and unrelated adults where they are left to languish not having their needs met while adults work out adult issues and we hope to god that the guy on the cot next to them isn't a pedophile, isn't providing for their welfare.

[_Jersey Girl]

And I might add that panicking and mass hysteria over a few well placed and sensationalized headlines isn't helping the thousands of children entering this country either, nor is anyone's claim to how depressing this is.

[_Res Ipsa]

Thanks, Jersey Girl. I was interested in your take because you are a fearless advocate of children and I was pretty sure you'd have have a reasoned, thoughtful approach.

Why do you think the child should be separated from the adults pending the results of the DNA test?

[_Jersey Girl]

Thanks, Jersey Girl. I was interested in your take because you are a fearless advocate of children and I was pretty sure you'd have have a reasoned, thoughtful approach.

Why do you think the child should be separated from the adults pending the results of the DNA test?

What I said here and why I said it:

It's up to our government to provide for the health and well being for those children and housing them in adult detention centers with related and unrelated adults where they are left to languish not having their needs met while adults work out adult issues and we hope to god that the guy on the cot next to them isn't a pedophile, isn't providing for their welfare.

Two things that really gripe my ass good are, 1) The number of people flipping out over a handful of sensationalized headlines who claim they care when they don't care enough to learn about what is being done to provide for incoming children (much less do they know or understand what the children's needs are--my god keep them with their parents and to hell with the risks and conditions!) and 2) the total and complete absence of assigning blame to the (shithole) countries that adults and children are fleeing from and the totality of blame that is being laid at the feet of the US government.

Christ almighty, it's sickening af. And no, I wouldn't address it quite this way in a professional setting.

If the departments of state social and human services were to place minor children in the care of unscreened foster parents or relatives without verification of relationship, the people on this board would go completely out of their damned minds. Well guess what, that's exactly what is being suggested should happen to the minor immigrant children.

Lack of perspective and knowledge helps exactly no one and certainly not these poor and courageous children who are crossing our borders regardless of the circumstances that led to their crossing.

It'd be nice if folks here cared more about the children than their quest to oppose all things Trump.

[_Jersey Girl]

Let me throw this not-so-unrelated fact on the table as food for thought. When Hurricane Katrina victims were evacuated to the Huston Astrodome, a nationwide call went out via my professional organization for volunteer ECE professionals to come on site to serve the families and meet the children's needs (along with medical professionals) while adults met with various organizations during the disaster relief process. My employer refused to grant me leave--the complete asses. Keep in mind that the evacuees likely had some form of id on them such as DL's.

The adult immigration detention centers (to my knowledge) have no on site resources to serve the children who have crossed the border with undocumented adults. The undocumented children are being served as a separate group apart from adults.

So there's a comparison for you all.

[_Res Ipsa]

I think you make a very good argument for separation until parentage is confirmed. If the administration intends to detain asylum applicants until a decision is made, that could take several years. If it does, would you favor keeping the children in a separate facility during that detention?