Is Astrology religion for those of us with no religion?

[_subgenius]

“... they have no other well to draw from.”

Foundation or genesis, that’s still incorrect. Sorry, chap.

Yeah, you just saying "unh-uh" does not really form a convincing rebuttal, let alone refutation...but i get ya, its uncomfortable for you to be in a corner - but since 1492 the American atheist may have quenched their thirst with kool-aid, but the well water remains the same as does the bucket which retrieved it from its murky depths....with the hydrologic cycle being irrelevant to its crisp cool enjoyment, and the point.

Maybe another time, thanks.

[_EAllusion]

Yes, because among the list of examples, the pledge (from late 1890s) is the hinge upon which this whole point pivots - not really a sniper of context are ya?

The pledge from the late 1890's contains no reference to God. That idea did not occur until after World War II and the practice was not widely adopted until the 1950's. Putting that in a list of things that has occurred for "the past 2 centuries" was humorous ignorance, but it reveals something more important underneath it. The fact that such a civic ritual was secular and in practice without any reference to God should start to tip you off that the dominance of Christianity in the United States is does not mean that the faith has had primacy in inculcating social order and common sense. There is a large, diverse body of secular thought, itself quite influential on people's ever evolving understanding what Christianity purports to preach, that wields considerable cultural influence.

[_canpakes]

“... they have no other well to draw from.”

Foundation or genesis, that’s still incorrect. Sorry, chap.

Yeah, you just saying "unh-uh" does not really form a convincing rebuttal, let alone refutation...but i get ya, its uncomfortable for you to be in a corner - but since 1492 the American atheist may have quenched their thirst with kool-aid, but the well water remains the same as does the bucket which retrieved it from its murky depths....with the hydrologic cycle being irrelevant to its crisp cool enjoyment, and the point.
Maybe another time, thanks.

OK, so you got nuthin’.

Good luck elsewhere with your claim that ‘atheists have no other well to draw from than Christianity’ thing. And remember not to kill anyone for their desert real estate.

[_subgenius]

Yes, because among the list of examples, the pledge (from late 1890s) is the hinge upon which this whole point pivots - not really a sniper of context are ya?

The pledge from the late 1890's contains no reference to God. That idea did not occur until after World War II and the practice was not widely adopted until the 1950's. Putting that in a list of things that has occurred for "the past 2 centuries" was humorous ignorance, but it reveals something more important underneath it.

humorous ignorance is when one does not recognize context...the list is not exhaustive or comprehensive but, as lists like that will do, exhibits how Christianity permeates wide and diverse reaches of society for centuries. So, while the pledge and its reference did not apply in 1776, it certainly applies to almost every atheist alive today. Your fixation on the exception instead of the rule just isn't funny, but it is ignorant.

The fact that such a civic ritual was secular and in practice without any reference to God should start to tip you off that the dominance of Christianity in the United States is does not mean that the faith has had primacy in inculcating social order and common sense.

But it did, in fact and in reality...your very point here accentuates that fact whereas the "secular" allegiance became consumed by the prevalent Christian culture within about 60 years....the pledge suffered the same fate as what I am arguing - the inescapable influence of Christianity.

There is a large, diverse body of secular thought, itself quite influential on people's ever evolving understanding what Christianity purports to preach, that wields considerable cultural influence.

No one is disputing the width and breadth of secular thought...the point, which you insist upon side-stepping, is that the modern atheist (western) has unavoidably been steeped, exposed, and indoctrinated with Christian traditions (almost exclusively) since birth - and because of that, their foundation is as such.

Now, if you want to argue that people are not products of their environment then so be it, argue that....but your assertion that most American atheists were developed in an environment that was/is not overwhelmingly embellished with Christian traditions then you are just ignorant.

[_subgenius]

[_Chap]

... while "do not steal" can be found elsewhere and in other times, the society with which the modern atheist exists within found "do not steal" because of Christianity and by how Christianity translated such. ...

Nope. Really not.

Jesus didn't go around telling people 'don't steal', 'don't murder', and the rest of it. He took it for granted that was something that everybody in his audience of (mostly) Jews knew already. Early Christians like Paul even went out of their way to claim that their religion was specifically not about keeping rules. Similarly, people in the ancient pagan west observed and taught to their children the basic moral codes of truthfulness, honesty and promise-keeping without which normal social life and long-term commercial activity of any kind - is impossible. They would have continued to do so if Christianity had never existed. I don't refrain from stealing things because I was brought up as a Christian.

I have quite long experience of mixing with people from cultures where Christianity has historically never made much of an impact. They are no less kind, honest and truthful than the average European or American.

What IS distinctive to someone like me brought up in a Christian family that I would not have had if I had been brought up in a Jewish family, or a Buddhist family, is a vague sense that I have a burden of sin that is always there, and that I can never really get rid of on my own. Intellectually I reject that idea: but it is hard to wash out that stain - which was woven into my cloth. In that sense I am marked for life by the religion I came to reject. And not in a good way.

[_canpakes]

Oh, I’m sorry that I said “you got nuthin”. You have a cute gif!

[_subgenius]

Oh, I’m sorry that I said “you got nuthin”. You have a cute gif!

and certainly accurate, which means i now have twice as much than what you brought to the table.

[_Chap]

Children, children!

Maybe you need to start another thread so you can have fun there without disturbing others?

[_canpakes]

Oh, I’m sorry that I said “you got nuthin”. You have a cute gif!

and certainly accurate, which means i now have twice as much than what you brought to the table.

Once again, the renown failures of conservative math are on display. ‘One gif’ multiplied by ‘no gifs’ does not equal twice as much gifs, nor one good argument.

Your math skills demonstrated here appear to be on par with your philosophical reasoning.