subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

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_subgenius
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Re: subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

Post by _subgenius »

canpakes wrote:subs has chosen not to state a key assertion of his argument, that human life is ‘special’, except when it isn’t.

I always enjoy how you insist on believing that you have this insight behind a veil which shrouds everything people say or type...that you know the "real meaning"....for example, my assertion was :
"For those of you keeping score at home, on this issue One-eye is all about the government heeding the counsel of religion, but on the issue of abortion the government should 180 on the value of children/family and heed the separation of church and state.
As usual the dismal policy of the Democratic party where liberals pick/choose when a child's life, and "family" is only as important as it is politically convenient."


and you peeped deep into your own hat and came up with - "ah, he just really said - human life is ‘special’, except when it isn’t".
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Themis
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Re: subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

Post by _Themis »

canpakes wrote:subs has chosen not to state a key assertion of his argument, that human life is ‘special’, except when it isn’t.


Subbie is a huge coward. He is afraid to make any arguments to make a case for what he believes and why. He only wants to attack those he views as liberal, why is why his behavior is just trolling.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

I have a great compromise for everyone!

We make abortion illegal with exceptions like birth defects, BUT we limit the amount of kids you can crap out to, say, three or four. Democrats will concede abortion if Repubs will commit resources to raising children responsibly.

See?

We can find a reasonable middle ground.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_canpakes
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Re: subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:subs has chosen not to state a key assertion of his argument, that human life is ‘special’, except when it isn’t.

I always enjoy how you insist on believing that you have this insight behind a veil which shrouds everything people say or type...

Not everyone. But for you, yes. : )

More seriously, you haven’t really tackled that reality. And Themis is pretty spot on in his own observation. You really are remarkably guarded, preferring only to attack the position of others while offering no indication of the ground that you plant your own feet on. I know that makes good sport for you but other folks just end up dismissing that game after a while.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

It's disconcerting to once again see folks arguing over this issue. What I see in the argument is that what constitutes personhood and when life begins are two different issues.

What's even more disturbing is the fact that the first child abuse case in the US was prosecuted under the laws regarding the ASPCA because there were no child abuse rights in the late 1800's so they prosecuted the case on behalf of Mary Ellen Wilson using animal abuse law. It wasn't until the 1970's (!) that this country put in place actual child abuse law (federal) (and I only know this because it was part of my education) and here we are in 2018 arguing over when/if anyone has the right to terminate a pregnancy and who has personhood and who has not, and when life begins which again, are two separate issues.

Makes my head spin.

Some of us believe that life begins at conception and that's perfectly fine. Some believe that personhood begins upon exit from the uterus and that's perfectly fine as well.

What isn't fine is when any of us wish to force our beliefs on to others. This is why I remain pro-choice and pro-life, because no matter what I believe, I don't believe I have a right to impose my beliefs on others. So long as the pro-choice door is open, those who see things differently than I do are free to choose, and so people that believe the way I do, are also free to choose.

I say that in these United States, where an adult has equal protection and equal rights under the law, that the door to choice needs to remain open.

It's the only thing that makes sense.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Maksutov
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Re: subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

Post by _Maksutov »

Jersey Girl wrote:It's disconcerting to once again see folks arguing over this issue. What I see in the argument is that what constitutes personhood and when life begins are two different issues.

What's even more disturbing is the fact that the first child abuse case in the US was prosecuted under the laws regarding the ASPCA because there were no child abuse rights in the late 1800's so they prosecuted the case on behalf of Mary Ellen Wilson using animal abuse law. It wasn't until the 1970's (!) that this country put in place actual child abuse law (federal) (and I only know this because it was part of my education) and here we are in 2018 arguing over when/if anyone has the right to terminate a pregnancy and who has personhood and who has not, and when life begins which again, are two separate issues.

Makes my head spin.

Some of us believe that life begins at conception and that's perfectly fine. Some believe that personhood begins upon exit from the uterus and that's perfectly fine as well.

What isn't fine is when any of us wish to force our beliefs on to others. This is why I remain pro-choice and pro-life, because no matter what I believe, I don't believe I have a right to impose my beliefs on others. So long as the pro-choice door is open, those who see things differently than I do are free to choose, and so people that believe the way I do, are also free to choose.

I say that in these United States, where an adult has equal protection and equal rights under the law, that the door to choice needs to remain open.

It's the only thing that makes sense.


Thank you, Jersey. Best post in the lot.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_subgenius
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Re: subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

Post by _subgenius »

Jersey Girl wrote:I don't believe I have a right to impose my beliefs on others...What isn't fine is when any of us wish to force our beliefs on to others.

The irony of your belief here is noted. Your post, is in fact is a passive-aggressive imposition of your belief. So while you do not literally tell anyone to agree with or echo your belief, you certainly proclaim it as a "way it should be".
But your sentiment is delightfully meek, albeit anti-social, or rather, anarchist.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Jersey Girl
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Re: subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Maksutov wrote:Thank you, Jersey. Best post in the lot.


Thanks, Mak. Know what's really ironic? That people are quibbling over semantics, definitions, and concepts, while daily observing massive cases of government sponsored child abuse to the tune of 2k+ children at the border and we'll quibble over that as well.

It's enough to piss off a preschool teacher.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_canpakes
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Re: subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:I don't believe I have a right to impose my beliefs on others...What isn't fine is when any of us wish to force our beliefs on to others.

The irony of your belief here is noted. Your post, is in fact is a passive-aggressive imposition of your belief. So while you do not literally tell anyone to agree with or echo your belief, you certainly proclaim it as a "way it should be".
But your sentiment is delightfully meek, albeit anti-social, or rather, anarchist.

So, what you are actually saying is that you find it oppressing to allow individuals to make their own choice on the matter, as opposed to allowing someone else like yourself to choose for them?
_canpakes
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Re: subbie - When Does Personhood Begin?

Post by _canpakes »

Maksutov wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:It's disconcerting to once again see folks arguing over this issue. What I see in the argument is that what constitutes personhood and when life begins are two different issues.

What's even more disturbing is the fact that the first child abuse case in the US was prosecuted under the laws regarding the ASPCA because there were no child abuse rights in the late 1800's so they prosecuted the case on behalf of Mary Ellen Wilson using animal abuse law. It wasn't until the 1970's (!) that this country put in place actual child abuse law (federal) (and I only know this because it was part of my education) and here we are in 2018 arguing over when/if anyone has the right to terminate a pregnancy and who has personhood and who has not, and when life begins which again, are two separate issues.

Makes my head spin.

Some of us believe that life begins at conception and that's perfectly fine. Some believe that personhood begins upon exit from the uterus and that's perfectly fine as well.

What isn't fine is when any of us wish to force our beliefs on to others. This is why I remain pro-choice and pro-life, because no matter what I believe, I don't believe I have a right to impose my beliefs on others. So long as the pro-choice door is open, those who see things differently than I do are free to choose, and so people that believe the way I do, are also free to choose.

I say that in these United States, where an adult has equal protection and equal rights under the law, that the door to choice needs to remain open.

It's the only thing that makes sense.


Thank you, Jersey. Best post in the lot.

Agreed, nicely done.
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