Who picks your food in the USA?

[_canpakes]

subs, is it common for agricultural workers to use strikes or collective bargaining to force their employers to pay them lower wages in any given situation? I’m just trying to determine their role in that process to a better degree.

[_subgenius]

subs, is it common for agricultural workers to use strikes or collective bargaining to force their employers to pay them lower wages in any given situation? I’m just trying to determine their role in that process to a better degree.

what process are you speaking about?

[_canpakes]

subs, is it common for agricultural workers to use strikes or collective bargaining to force their employers to pay them lower wages in any given situation? I’m just trying to determine their role in that process to a better degree.

what process are you speaking about?

The process that determines the wages paid to agricultural workers.

Can you tell me if the wages of agricultural workers are being held down by their wanting to be paid less?

[_canpakes]

A. American employers have to be willing to pay a reasonable wage for this work,

B. American workers have to be willing to do this work,

C. American consumers have to be willing to pay enough to make it work.

Brown folks really aren't the actual problem in all of this.

A. Is it your position that Conservatives are solely/more responsible for wages paid for "this work"?

This wasn't a point that I was introducing, but if you want to pursue it, then just about every modern survey of farm owners and ag producers shows an exceedingly strong preference for voting Republican. You can research this yourself.

Ultimately, these guys have some control over what they pay their workers, right?

B. American workers are not willing to do this work ?

Are you seeing a lot of Americans doing this work? Why, or why not?

C. That American consumers are not willing to pay enough to make it work?

No, not really.

Witness the rise of Walmart, then dollar stores, over the past few decades, and how that coincided with the decline of some traditional manufacturing in the States. Americans just loooove their cheap junk from China.

Fun exercise, too - take a look at the deployment and growth of WalMart stores since that chain began. Where did the expansion take hold? Mainly in Conservative America. Same for dollar stores when they began to take over. 'Flyover Country' helped solidly set and cement the trend that contributed to their own demise.

Here's a super-short animated slide show of the growth pattern of WalMart -

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EGzHBtoVvpc


Dollar General's expansion in the early 2000's -

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/1207480 ... 1238118503

and how are Brown folks not part of the problem? are Brown folks excluded from your A, B, and C scenarios above? Is this just a white folks problem because "only whites"?

Do you think that it was brown folks, or good 'ol White Corporate America that reshaped the supply chain and outsource/import trends that rocked the middle- and lower-class world of Americans over the last few decades?

footnote:
A. Does a reasonable wage for this work include Union dues? Do Labor Unions that allow illegal immigrant membership have any influence on this wage and are these Unions primarily Conservative?

Does the mere presence of a union guarantee anything with regard to wages being more 'reasonable' than not?

Does the promotion of illegal immigrant employment promote "reasonable wages"?

Who is doing the promoting? For what gain? ; )

(Oh, I know you'll answer that Democrats ship brown folks across the border to get votes, even though these guys can't vote - while ignoring the obvious immediate and real benefit to farm owners...)

Are you aware of the several labor unions involved in "this type of work"? Is there one political party way more heavily involved in labor unions?

Again, does the mere presence of a union guarantee anything with regard to wages being more 'reasonable' than not?

Who ultimately sets wages?

B. Let us set aside the fact that in the industrialized world, Americans work more (longer days, less vacation, retire later)...Now focusing on "this work", who are the Americans that would otherwise be doing this work?...it is usually physically demanding or menial, correct? Not usually a "skilled" worker or "professional/educated" worker...so maybe a high school education is not even required - like a young healthy person would be a good fit, correct?...it is well documented that most immigrants (especially undocumented) are men ages 18 to 39....

You're arguing that healthy young men cannot do this work?

and let us not forget that this type of "work" is not suited to persons who are looking to put down roots in the community...the work is seasonal and relative to harvest periods, these workers are immigrants to our country but they necessarily migrate across jobs (to and fro).

Are Americans not able to be flexible or mobile in seeking work? How is it that you ascribe this limitation to folks within our own borders while expecting that poor people with virtually nothing to their name, comparatively speaking, should be capable of trekking in from half a continent and several countries away to do this work for us?

The share of 16- to 24-year-olds saying they simply did not want to work rose from an average 29.5% in 2000 to an average 39.4% by 2015 - is this demographic primarily Conservative or Liberal? (ages 25 to 54 remained mostly unchanged and 55+ actually decreased).

Does the employer pay differently depending upon which party the worker is registered with? Or, perhaps, which country they are residents of?

....and is there any irony in the historical fact that early Spanish colonists utilized African slaves because the Spanish colonist were unwilling to do that sort of work?

I cannot comment on the apparent laziness of Spanish colonists. I note that the same issue doesn't seem to exist with their descendants.

C. Your notion sounds like some sort of free market mumbo jumbo - shouldn't the government just raise taxes on white people and subsidize ?

To the first part - perhaps it is just 'free market mumble jumbo' because much if what is bandied about as solid conservative market ideology is indeed 'mumbo jumbo'. To the second part - I have no idea why you're bringing taxes into this, except perhaps as some kind of ADD-prompted diversion?

[_EAllusion]

So the mass of ordinary people, including Trump's core voter base, would, in your view, be perfectly happy to pay the higher food prices that would be the consequence of paying agricultural workers well enough to attract American workers to do those jobs?

Why not? We're perfectly fine with paying higher prices for European and Asian goods until we win this trade war.

While I'm sure you're fine with Trump's five year plan for economic glory, it's a bit presumptuous of you to speak for everyone. My guess is the majority of Trump voters would flat deny that they're going to experience any real economic pain from the trade war. Some, like you probably, would be correct in that assessment as things currently stand.

[_subgenius]

The process that determines the wages paid to agricultural workers.

yes, i understand the product, but what is the "process" you mentioned?

Can you tell me if the wages of agricultural workers are being held down by their wanting to be paid less?

No, i can not tell you if the wages of agricultural workers are being held down or by what means.
But if we assume greed as an inescapable universal human condition, then the workers might believe their wages are always being held down whereas the employers might believe that their wages are being held "up".

[_EAllusion]

Wisconsin is being hit particularly hard by the escalation in tariffs. Some of its key exports are specifically being targeted: dairy, cranberries, ginseng, harley davidson motorcycles...

I wonder if economic pain will start to take hold before the November election and if that will move any votes. It probably going to move at least some votes, though I'm not sure if any elections will be close enough for that marginal difference to matter.

[_canpakes]

The process that determines the wages paid to agricultural workers.

yes, i understand the product, but what is the "process" you mentioned?

Can you tell me if the wages of agricultural workers are being held down by their wanting to be paid less?

No, i can not tell you if the wages of agricultural workers are being held down or by what means.
But if we assume greed as an inescapable universal human condition, then the workers might believe their wages are always being held down whereas the employers might believe that their wages are being held "up".

And I suppose that you can also believe in such things as unicorns and that tax cuts pay for themselves, or all sorts of other fantasies. In the end, if you’re going to make an assertion, then you should throw down some evidence to help back it up.

So you appear to believe that employers might believe that the wages of their migrant work force are being held ‘up’. Discuss.

[_DarkHelmet]

We're perfectly fine with paying higher prices for European and Asian goods until we win this trade war.

When did republicans/conservatives turn anti-free trade? "Trade war" is an oxymoron. Has anyone ever "won" a trade war before? In all the previous trade wars in history, was a winner declared? Did they get a trophy?

[_ajax18]

When did republicans/conservatives turn anti-free trade?

They didn't. DJT still supports free trade. But he no longer views us as just citizens of the world. He puts American interests first when it comes to trade, the border, the environment, etc. In the past Republicans have put the interest of big business ahead of the common working American. DJT changed that when he thrashed the RINOs in the Republican primary of 2016. It's called economic nationalism. It's the movement that provided a winning Republican presidential candidate when the old ways of the establishment produced nothing but losses.