But they keep finding witches...

[Guest]

The National Review is not a liberal rag, it's an establishment rag, which happens to give safe harbor to certain liberal #NeverTrump defectors. David French is one such person, an avowed #NeverTrump liberal. His opinions are both stupid and irrelevant.

https://thefederalist.com/2018/07/10/tr ... lectorate/

https://spectator.org/the-collapse-of-t ... ervatives/

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=376110

Mak, as for your comments. You're wrong, buddy. Cadet Bone Spurs? Yeah, no doubt you include Mike Flynn on that, right? Don't waste my time.

There are a lot of things, most things, that I would happily sit in the corner and keep my mouth shut for. This isn't one of them. I mean, I'm happy to keep my mouth shut and enjoy the spectacle, but I know it's wrong. This is the biggest crock of ____, ever.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... oon-report

See the aforelinked articles. This is nothing more than a cold civil war between our three-party political system. The only aspect of this that is curious to me is why Trump hasn't ended the fiasco by simply firing Mueller, and/or Sessions, and/or Rosenstein. Many theories, but I'm torn between whether Trump has been convinced he needs to wait until after the mid-terms for sake of damage control or if it's the opposite and he enjoys this publicity and sees it as something that will energize the base. Maybe he's waiting for Congress to demand scalps.

An interesting situation. Half the country thinks Trump is an illegitimate president. The other half thinks a coup is in progress. Hmm.

Dog, we went through a lot of the same thing with Watergate, which was on the heels of the VietNam war and the country was torn apart over that *and* race riots. Lots of people talking revolution then and the Left was a serious violent threat (see SDS, Weathermen, Black Panthers, SLA, etc). If the Commander in Chief is guilty of serious crimes, we the people have recourse (supposedly).

Flynn? I'm going to respect Flynn's stars? Not when he's acting as a foreign agent. SOB should be prosecuted.

Yeah, I am going to talk about Cadet Bone Spurs. You should be ashamed of a guy who goes after John McCain the way he did. Really, dude. You can't excuse that. And it tells you a whole lot about this 'president' if you can stop making it about you and give him a hard look. You won't stop? I won't either. I know you're a good guy and a patriot but your loyalties can be abused. I sincerely believe they have. I don't give a damn about the Democrats and Hillary Clinton was a world of crap but this is beyond that.

[_Water Dog]

So if Manafort ran Trump's campaign, and he was instrumental in trying to change the language of the GOP platform to take a softer stance against the Russian invasion of Crimea, doesn't that connect in some way to Trump? Trump has always said he 'hires the best people'. He sure as crap didn't do due diligence on his campaign manager or national security advisor, both of whom were unregistered foreign agents. So if you don't think that the President's national security advisor being an unregistered foreign is not a 'notable' indictment, I guess you have a different definition of 'notable'.

You are confused about the facts. It's not notable because the charges against Manafort pertain to things he allegedly did long before he was involved in the Trump campaign. Even years before. We're talking about stuff that is far removed from anything that could in any way be connected to Trump or the campaign.

The matter about being a foreign lobbyists (not agent) is equally irrelevant. If there was a special investigator digging through the Hillary campaign you'd turn up a long list of people who were either registered lobbyists or had worked in similar capacities that damn sure appear like the same thing even though they weren't officially registered. Hiring someone who has some lobby work isn't illegal. It's quite normal.

That isn't to say Manafort isn't legitimately guilty of something. Maybe he is. The charges against him, however, do not, even in the most remote and tenuous of ways, allege collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

As for Trump's attitude towards Crimea. On its face this is a weak argument. Trump can have whatever position he wants. As can Hillary, as did Obama, etc. Similar to 9/11 truth conspiracies, the underlying thesis is objectively irrational. What was it that Obama famously said, "the 1980s called and want their foreign policy back?" The idea that any type of "softer" position is evidence of some sort of quid pro quo between candidate Trump and the Russian govt. is nothing short of sub intelligent. It goes beyond mere ignorance of today's geopolitical world, so farcical it should not warrant even brief consideration. It's as if liberals are being mind controlled by neocon warhawks like John McCain.

That's right, Russia hacked DNC emails and believed that this would swing the election to Trump, who they thought would give them the farm compared to the anti-socialist warhawk Hillary Clinton. What are you children smoking these days? Haha.

Please, someone walk me through this. Even if Russia was involved in these email leaks. Perhaps that's true to some extent, let's treat it as fact for sake of argument. On what basis do we then conclude collusion? In 2016, despite all the scandals with Hillary, despite the DNC email leaks, even despite Comey's 11th hour thing, every election expert predicted a Hillary landslide. You're arguing that Russian intelligence knew better?

Some Russian computer nerds sat around in a room and came up with a plan to hijack the presidential election in the United States by leaking DNC emails? And they were so confident of this outcome, that they approached candidate Trump and brought him into it? This was their plan? In their minds, Hillary will be a "strong" president and frustrate their imperialist machinations. Trump on the other hand, total "softy," we can flip him into a Russian puppet. This is your argument?

[_Kishkumen]

That’s the thing, Mak. The fact that there is a lot of agreement out there that Trump is a bad guy who is taking his party in a bad direction is ignored. Trumpies cling to their man, convinced that the rest of the world is wrong. I blame the “establishment” of both parties, but I sure as hell don’t think the answer was to hand the keys of the kingdom to a corrupt fool.

[_Kishkumen]

That's right, Russia hacked DNC emails and believed that this would swing the election to Trump, who they thought would give them the farm compared to the anti-socialist warhawk Hillary Clinton. What are you children smoking these days? Haha.

If they could benefit from it, and it cost them very little money to do it, why not try?

Fact: Donald Trump invited the Russians to hack Hillary’s emails in front of the world.

Fact: The Russians did.

Fact: The Trump campaign benefitted from the Russian hack.

Problem: It is so crazy on its face that most everyone can’t accept what that means.

Trump is a criminal and a traitor.

[_Water Dog]

No. A different direction is what we want. What does this have to do with Russian collusion? One can agree or disagree with Trump while simultaneously acknowledging these tin foil conspiracies for what they are. You just want a lynch mob.

[_Water Dog]

If they could benefit from it, and it cost them very little money to do it, why not try?

Fact: Donald Trump invited the Russians to hack Hillary’s emails in front of the world.

Fact: The Russians did.

Fact: The Trump campaign benefitted from the Russian hack.

Problem: It is so crazy on its face that most everyone can’t accept what that means.

Trump is a criminal and a traitor.

Good Lord! None of those things are facts. Except perhaps Trump benefiting. The rest is hyperbole and supposition.

[Guest]

No. A different direction is what we want. What does this have to do with Russian collusion? One can agree or disagree with Trump while simultaneously acknowledging these tin foil conspiracies for what they are. You just want a lynch mob.

Dude, Trump came in on a conspiracy theory called Birtherism. The tin foil is with Trump from the very beginning. Have you ever actually watched Alex Jones? Birtherism wasn't just bullsheet, it was racist as well. RACIST. Why would he have to reach for racist lies if he really was a better candidate?

I wanted a conservative but this guy isn't that. Never was. The Relief Society got panicked by the Hillary polls and they reached for this. It was a bad year without good choices because both of the major parties failed to produce good people.

Congress agreed to this investigation, they agreed to Mueller. Now they're backing off because he's actually busting people. It makes them nervous. Makes their boss unhappy. Tough.

There doesn't have to be collusion to have major problems. Our systems are vulnerable. Hillary should never have had a private server. We've been lax all over the place and we need to tighten up. This is about national sovereignty and security, not just left/right partisan horsecock. This is real. This is dangerous.

[Guest]

No. A different direction is what we want. What does this have to do with Russian collusion? One can agree or disagree with Trump while simultaneously acknowledging these tin foil conspiracies for what they are. You just want a lynch mob.

Tinfoil hat conspiracies like the government faking the moon landing? Or 9/11 being an inside job? I think you have a very bizarre idea of what a tinfoil hat conspiracy is.

Let’s let the family dog decide where we go on vacation this year. That would be a new direction!

Lynch mob? Yes, an FBI investigation is exactly the same as a lynch mob. Derp.

[_Kishkumen]

Good Lord! None of those things are facts. Except perhaps Trump benefiting. The rest is hyperbole and supposition.

Wait a second, Water Dog. Seriously, you are saying that Trump did not stand up before the cameras and invite the Russians to find Hillary’s emails?

[_Kishkumen]

Dude, Trump came in on a conspiracy theory called Birtherism. The tin foil is with Trump from the very beginning. Have you ever actually watched Alex Jones? Birtherism wasn't just bullsheet, it was racist as well. RACIST. Why would he have to reach for racist lies if he really was a better candidate?

It amazes me that Trumpies don’t understand that Trump’s promotion of Birtherism places their entire cause and argument in a credibility hole that is difficult to climb out of. It doesn’t help when they give Trump, the guy who said this Birther crap repeatedly, more trust than the very believable and demonstrable pattern of Russian meddling in Western elections. This is a tinfoil hat conspiracy? Birtherism was not? I would guess that Trump fans are the very people who are most likely to believe Birtherism, 9/11 Truthism, and any number of other crazy government conspiracy theories.