Dying For Montenegro

[_moksha]

Trump's comments on Montenegro were most likely Moscow talking points.

[_Themis]

Everybody seems intent to avoid the question. Are you all uncomfortable saying the words, "yes, I would send my son to die for Montenegro!?" I want to hear the words. I didn't say that we shouldn't honor our agreements. I'm asking about the the spirit of the law here, not the letter. If the spirit is bad, perhaps that law should be changed. I want to know if you really believe in it, or if you're just a bunch of hypocrites as I suspect.

Protecting Montenegro is the same as protecting American lives. If the US had not entered WW2 sending many Americans to their death the world would be a very different place you would not like. Other countries sacrificed their people's lives to support the US after 911. Maybe if you pulled your head out of the sand you would understand we save our own lives and freedom by supporting each other against enemies like Russia is right now. Maybe we should ask if the US can get rid of Trump they may invoke Article 5 over Russia's attack on the US. Should other NATO members sacrifice their people to defend the US?

[_Themis]

Trump's comments on Montenegro were most likely Moscow talking points.

His behavior over and over again is right in line with Russia's foreign policy. Hell even a number of notable Republicans are telling us this.

[_Some Schmo]

The Alpha Thug of the GI've Oral to Putin Party has decreed it.

LOL

[_EAllusion]

The most plausible nuclear apocalypse scenario out there is that Russia invades the Baltic states thinking the US/NATO won't counterstrike, then the US/NATO do counterstrike and the conflict leads to Russia launching tactical nukes in self-defense to avoid total defeat, leading to a rapid tit-for-tat full-scale nuclear war. Like, that's the scenario I've seen written about for years. Here's a Vox article on it coincidentally published only a few days before the rise of Trump:

https://www.vox.com/2015/6/29/8845913/russia-war

The Balkans will work just as well as the Baltic States.

Trump is actively enabling the first domino with his rhetoric. These kind of potential mixed messages are obscenely dangerous. Trump is so irresponsible. This is before you get to whether it makes sense for the US to honor its military alliance treaty obligations.

[_EAllusion]

I'm sorry. Let me fix that last line:

[_Themis]

The most plausible nuclear apocalypse scenario out there is that Russia invades the Baltic states thinking the US/NATO won't counterstrike, then the US/NATO do counterstrike and the conflict leads to Russia launching tactical nukes in self-defense to avoid total defeat, leading to a rapid tit-for-tat full-scale nuclear war. Like, that's the scenario I've seen written about for years. Here's a Vox article on it coincidentally published only a few days before the rise of Trump:

https://www.vox.com/2015/6/29/8845913/russia-war

The Balkans will just as well as the Baltic States.

Trump is actively enabling the first domino with his rhetoric. These kind of potential mixed messages are obscenely dangerous. Trump is so irresponsible. This is before you get to whether it makes sense for the US to honor its military alliance treaty obligations.

Yup and now that the World cup in Russia is over it may be more likely to happen.

[_EAllusion]

Everybody seems intent to avoid the question. Are you all uncomfortable saying the words, "yes, I would send my son to die for Montenegro!?" I want to hear the words. I didn't say that we shouldn't honor our agreements. I'm asking about the the spirit of the law here, not the letter. If the spirit is bad, perhaps that law should be changed. I want to know if you really believe in it, or if you're just a bunch of hypocrites as I suspect.

The threat of the military alliance is what has kept peace in the region. You'll notice that NATO countries tend to be conspicuously free of wars with one another after hundreds and hundreds of years of internal military conflicts that lead to the most destructive wars in human history. On top of that, no nation dares attack them. The willingness to die for a NATO country helps prevent the need to die in a NATO country.

[_subgenius]

It's almost as if Kevin reads nothing before he posts.

+1
(no, it's not almost that....it is that).

[_honorentheos]

So your answer is, yes, we should send men to die for Montenegro? We should start a war with Russia?

What do others say? Agree with Themis? Do we have any "no" votes?

Yes, if Montenegro invoked article 5, we should hit the idiots attacking them hard and send them back to wherever they came from.

Should we start a war with Russia is a different question. Article 5 is defensive. If Montenegro started a war with Russia and then asked for help, they wouldn't be able to invoke Article 5.