Fear of the Left . . .

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_Kishkumen
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Re: Fear of the Left . . .

Post by _Kishkumen »

honorentheos wrote:Ceebs posted a clearly polemic piece for an O P. He had every opportunity to show he was legitimately interested in engaging people over its content. It wasn't just that he was being overwhelmed that he didn't respond. He clearly wasn't interested in a good faith conversation, and seemed mostly interested in people validating whatever beliefs he already had. It gets old being asked a question, offering up a response with intent to dig into them a bit to only get a, "Thanks for playing!" That's not being nice. That's being a dick in a different kind of way. I'm sorry if it is offensive to say this, but frankly the quality of content in his posts went up after he erased them. That's how little actual content was there before.


That's one way of looking at it, and I think it is very troubling, if it is correct. That is not really the Ceeboo I am accustomed to interacting with. What is going on here? What would prompt him to do this?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_honorentheos
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Re: Fear of the Left . . .

Post by _honorentheos »

Kishkumen wrote:
honorentheos wrote:Ceebs posted a clearly polemic piece for an O P. He had every opportunity to show he was legitimately interested in engaging people over its content. It wasn't just that he was being overwhelmed that he didn't respond. He clearly wasn't interested in a good faith conversation, and seemed mostly interested in people validating whatever beliefs he already had. It gets old being asked a question, offering up a response with intent to dig into them a bit to only get a, "Thanks for playing!" That's not being nice. That's being a dick in a different kind of way. I'm sorry if it is offensive to say this, but frankly the quality of content in his posts went up after he erased them. That's how little actual content was there before.


That's one way of looking at it, and I think it is very troubling, if it is correct. That is not really the Ceeboo I am accustomed to interacting with. What is going on here? What would prompt him to do this?

I don't know. I will say it isn't the first time I've felt this way. Most discussions about evolution run into a wall where the interest is to agree to disagree...but then keep bringing it up as if it is some sign of insanity anyone could possibly believe evolution is more reasonable as a theory than the Judeo-Christian God created the universe in a time frame that may or may not be accurately reflected in the modern Bible.

When it comes to politics, I think it's much of the same. If the behavior is a mix of, "Let's agree to disagree" and "Everyone who thinks this way is cray cray!" then it seems like that person, in this case ceebs, isn't actually interested in understanding why other people hold sincere beliefs that contradict their own. Otherwise ceebs might want to be able to intelligently engage that other person from where they are at rather than as a one of the stereotypes created to explain this particular insanity among those who share one's position.

I tend to think its a rare trait to be able to sincerely understand a position that contradicts one's own in a way that person could accurately present this view and have those who hold acknowledge it as their own. I don't have that understanding most of the time. But I think the best discussions come from people who a) open up their own views in order to express them so others can more readily understand them, and b) engage the opposing argument as its being presented rather than ones preconceptions of either the person or their position with whom one disagrees.

This thread lacked both of those characteristics. Perhaps it's too bad. Perhaps it's the craziness of the current political climate saturating everything else to the point its all poisoned. I don't know. But being open with ones own views and sincerely engaging others and what they share is kinda necessary to be considered legitimately nice, in my opinion.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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_Some Schmo
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Re: Fear of the Left . . .

Post by _Some Schmo »

honorentheos wrote:Ceebs posted a clearly polemic piece for an O P. He had every opportunity to show he was legitimately interested in engaging people over its content. It wasn't just that he was being overwhelmed that he didn't respond. He clearly wasn't interested in a good faith conversation, and seemed mostly interested in people validating whatever beliefs he already had. It gets old being asked a question, offering up a response with intent to dig into them a bit to only get a, "Thanks for playing!" That's not being nice. That's being a dick in a different kind of way.

This is an awesome description of Ceeboo's general thread starting history. To see it happen in a thread where he essentially throws up the rhetorical question "Why is the left so unwilling to communicate?" pretty much took over my brain.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Some Schmo
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Re: Fear of the Left . . .

Post by _Some Schmo »

honorentheos wrote: I don't know. I will say it isn't the first time I've felt this way. Most discussions about evolution run into a wall where the interest is to agree to disagree...but then keep bringing it up as if it is some sign of insanity anyone could possibly believe evolution is more reasonable as a theory than the Judeo-Christian God created the universe in a time frame that may or may not be accurately reflected in the modern Bible.

And this.

I suppose if people are remotely interested in why I said what I said, I should point out it wasn't just this thread. It was my overall experience with Ceeboo.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Fear of the Left . . .

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Kishkumen wrote:What would prompt him to do this?


I can't know or say for sure, but I did watch what he was doing right up until he pulled the ripcord entirely.

He had written a kind of summary of his position where he referred to this as a "mob". Having years ago been the one fielding posts of many posters at one time (I mentioned this earlier) it's no easy task. It really does feel like a mob when you and your position are the central focus. There are very few posters in these political threads or Mormon related threads in Terrestrial that will ever experience that.

Anyway, he did respond to the attack post. Then he wrote another post wondering why everyone remained silent to the attack but for Cam. Then he started deleting bottom up until his OP was the last to go.

I do know one thing about Ceeboo. When he feels like a thing is getting too hostile and he starts to getting anywhere near nasty himself, he'll leave. He has far more self control than I in that regard. Me, I tend to dig in and slug it out a while, or simply laugh it off when it's laughable. Whether or not he can see his part in a build up or whether or not others can see their part, I can't judge that. A majority of the thread doesn't exist to even review now to try to determine where it went wrong. I'd be willing to chalk it up to dynamics and call it good.

In any case, this thread is really reflective of the current political climate. Everywhere we look online there is hostility over even the smallest things. I hope--hope--that we could recognize that this is a community. Some of us have been with each other for decades. Sometimes it's the personalities we encounter on the other side of the screen that is responsible for what we say/do, sometimes there are other things going on in real life that pressure us, and sometimes it's both.

And then you end up with the perfect storm. I look forward to Ceeboo's return when/if he's return.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Fear of the Left . . .

Post by _Jersey Girl »

honorentheos wrote:
When it comes to politics, I think it's much of the same. If the behavior is a mix of, "Let's agree to disagree" and "Everyone who thinks this way is cray cray!" then it seems like that person, in this case ceebs, isn't actually interested in understanding why other people hold sincere beliefs that contradict their own. Otherwise ceebs might want to be able to intelligently engage that other person from where they are at rather than as a one of the stereotypes created to explain this particular insanity among those who share one's position.


I wonder if you or anyone else has a copy of the OP handy from writing their own replies? I read it just once.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Kishkumen
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Re: Fear of the Left . . .

Post by _Kishkumen »

honorentheos wrote:I tend to think its a rare trait to be able to sincerely understand a position that contradicts one's own in a way that person could accurately present this view in a way those who hold it would accept it as their own. I don't have that understanding most of the time. But I think the best discussions come from people who a) open up their own views in order to express them so others can more readily understand them, and b) engage the opposing argument as its being presented rather than a form of it one assumes is the intention of the person with whom one disagrees.

This thread lacked both of those characteristics. Perhaps it's too bad. Perhaps its the craziness of the current political climate saturating everything else to the point its all poisoned. I don't know. But being open with ones own views and sincerely engaging others and what they share is kinda necessary to be considered legitimately nice behavior.


I agree with you that it is a rare trait. It is one I am willing to attempt with a person who is engaging in an honest conversation in good will. There are many times, however, when I have other motives for starting a thread or participating in one. Some are designed to have fun. Some are posted to vent. Some are fishing for support, agreement, or sympathy.

Ceeboo is in a real minority here, and, frankly, most of his pro-Trump allies on this board (I know he did not vote for Trump) are people I would be ashamed to be associated with. Sorry, but it's true. But Ceeboo is someone I find likable for the most part, and, to my knowledge, a decent fellow. Maybe he hangs out here partly because he is amused by the views and behavior of people whose experience is so different from his own. But there are times when it must be tempting to express alienation and disdain, and I would not be surprised if this atmosphere brought that out in him.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_honorentheos
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Re: Fear of the Left . . .

Post by _honorentheos »

Jersey Girl wrote:
honorentheos wrote:When it comes to politics, I think it's much of the same. If the behavior is a mix of, "Let's agree to disagree" and "Everyone who thinks this way is cray cray!" then it seems like that person, in this case ceebs, isn't actually interested in understanding why other people hold sincere beliefs that contradict their own. Otherwise ceebs might want to be able to intelligently engage that other person from where they are at rather than as a one of the stereotypes created to explain this particular insanity among those who share one's position.

I wonder if you or anyone else has a copy of the opening post handy from writing their own replies? I read it just once.

He basically copy-pasted this article:

http://www.dennisprager.com/fear-of-the ... ica-today/
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_honorentheos
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Re: Fear of the Left . . .

Post by _honorentheos »

Kishkumen wrote:Maybe he hangs out here partly because he is amused by the views and behavior of people whose experience is so different from his own. But there are times when it must be tempting to express alienation and disdain, and I would not be surprised if this atmosphere brought that out in him.

Could be. But since he wasn't interested in being open about his own views or engaging others I guess we'll never know. ;)
Last edited by Guest on Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Maksutov
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Re: Fear of the Left . . .

Post by _Maksutov »

Fear of the Left. Fear of the Right.
Hate the Left. Hate the Right.
Fear. Hate.
Left. Right.
Fight! Fight! Fight!

(Cui bono?)
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
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