Chap wrote:Even assuming (which I doubt) that Water Dog is representative of the opinion of members of the current US military, I don't think it has been the habit of the governments of countries successful in maintaining their place in the world to make decisions about their alliances by asking their soldiers to express their preferences as to how such things should be managed.
I doubt too whether Trump has yet brought his country so low that the USA is likely to be the first to attempt to do so.
There are occasional episodes of American generals flexing political muscles. They've had very uneven results.
Edwin Walker Smedley Butler Douglas MacArthur George Van Horn Moseley
I must admit I had never heard of Smedley Butler. What a great name! (Reminds me of Snidely Whiplash). I had never heard of the business plot. The industrialists of Germany for the most part worked with Hitler. The industrialists of the United States for the large part worked against Franklin Roosevelt.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization." - Will Durant "We've kept more promises than we've even made" - Donald Trump "Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist." - Edwin Land
Perhaps you should send your Nephew over here then.
Votevets, no, they're not neocons, they're communist-curious progressives. And the irony of referencing them is that they represent an example of exactly what I'm talking about. Votevets was founded in opposition to the war in Iraq. It was veterans of Iraq coming out against the war. (Although in terms of membership there are auspiciously few veterans among their ranks... relatively speaking. They boast 500,000 supporters, 20,000 due paying members, of which 1,000 are veterans. Wow, that's impressive. By comparison the NRA has over 6 million dues paying members.) Regardless, in what respect does VoteVets disagree with me? VV was in favor of breaking every conceivable international commitment we made w/r Iraq. On what basis do you think VV or the its "supporters" would do the opposite and stay the course in a conflict elsewhere?
Gunnar wrote:As this thread continues it becomes increasingly difficult for me to decide whether WD is naïvely being manipulated by and falling for Trump and Russia's deceptions, or has become or is becoming a willing participant in their attempts to deceive and manipulate. I can't help getting the impression that even the prospect of the USA becoming, in effect, merely another province of Russia is preferable to Donald Trump and his cohorts to giving up whatever political power and influence they aspire to, if that is what it takes to acquire it.
In other words, you can't decide whether I should be sent to the reeducation camp or the death camp after your boys win #TheRevolution?
Gunnar wrote:As this thread continues it becomes increasingly difficult for me to decide whether Water Dog is naïvely being manipulated by and falling for Trump and Russia's deceptions, or has become or is becoming a willing participant in their attempts to deceive and manipulate. I can't help getting the impression that even the prospect of the USA becoming, in effect, merely another province of Russia is preferable to Donald Trump and his cohorts to giving up whatever political power and influence they aspire to, if that is what it takes to acquire it.
In other words, you can't decide whether I should be sent to the reeducation camp or the death camp after your boys win #TheRevolution?
How side-splittingly hilarious!
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Gunnar wrote:As this thread continues it becomes increasingly difficult for me to decide whether WD is naïvely being manipulated by and falling for Trump and Russia's deceptions, or has become or is becoming a willing participant in their attempts to deceive and manipulate. I can't help getting the impression that even the prospect of the USA becoming, in effect, merely another province of Russia is preferable to Donald Trump and his cohorts to giving up whatever political power and influence they aspire to, if that is what it takes to acquire it.
In other words, you can't decide whether I should be sent to the reeducation camp or the death camp after your boys win #TheRevolution?
Ah yes, the death camps. That's where they send you after Obamacare's death panels have determined you are terminally conservative. No wonder Putin wanted Trump elected, he was trying to save healthcare, and Maria Butina was tried to save the 2nd Amendment!
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization." - Will Durant "We've kept more promises than we've even made" - Donald Trump "Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist." - Edwin Land
Gunnar wrote:As this thread continues it becomes increasingly difficult for me to decide whether WD is naïvely being manipulated by and falling for Trump and Russia's deceptions, or has become or is becoming a willing participant in their attempts to deceive and manipulate. I can't help getting the impression that even the prospect of the USA becoming, in effect, merely another province of Russia is preferable to Donald Trump and his cohorts to giving up whatever political power and influence they aspire to, if that is what it takes to acquire it.
In other words, you can't decide whether I should be sent to the reeducation camp or the death camp after your boys win #TheRevolution?
No one is going to be sent to any reeducation camp unless Trump and Putin manage to get what they both want. If that happens, I will be far more likely to be sent away to a reeducation camp than you. I am more convinced than ever that either you have been seriously duped by Trump and his ilk, or you are willfully cooperating in his attempts to dupe and manipulate the rest of us.
It is interesting that you brought up the "threat" of reeducation camps, since that is a tactic used by the tyrants Trump has been praising of late, like Kim Jong Un. I have little doubt that Trump really wishes he could get away with sending those who critisize him away to reeducation camps for brainwashing--just like the Kim regime does.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
Water Dog wrote:Votevets, no, they're not neocons, they're communist-curious progressives. : rolleyes: And the irony of referencing them is that they represent an example of exactly what I'm talking about. Votevets was founded in opposition to the war in Iraq. It was veterans of Iraq coming out against the war. (Although in terms of membership there are auspiciously few veterans among their ranks... relatively speaking. They boast 500,000 supporters, 20,000 due paying members, of which 1,000 are veterans.
Please go back and read your Wikipedia article again. It was eleven years ago (in 2007--one year after their founding), that Votevets reported 1000 Iraq era veterans. Even then, that's 950 more veterans than is represented in your various fora. This is as bad as your misrepresented, off-the-charts crime surge in Denmark.
First you claim that there are no modern veterans who approve of NATO, then when shown them, you dismiss them as Communists and change the subject.
The best NCO I was fortunate to serve with and the man I consider my mentor as well as a close friend is career military, and to be honest, he's told me of things he dealt with on deployments at command levels that reflect some of what Dog may have in mind. They were referring to certain troops from some of our smaller allied nations, and to someone deeply committed to the professionalism of our armed forces I can see what he found...peculiar. I don't dismiss you experience, Dog. Perhaps anyone who's watched the documentary film Armadillo would also wonder about the level of professionalism of some of the troops committed to combat service in Afghanistan and Iraq.
My only experience was training in Germany before 9/11 but at the time I found the German forces quite professional and good to work with but when it comes to military personnel one can find all kinds of soldiers across the professional spectrum I suppose. I do find the statement that the UK is miles behind our abilities along with those of Germany, Canada and France to be improbable given my limited exposure.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
honorentheos wrote:The best NCO I was fortunate to serve with and the man I consider my mentor as well as a close friend is career military, and to be honest, he's told me of things he dealt with on deployments at command levels that reflect some of what Dog may have in mind. They were referring to certain troops from some of our smaller allied nations, and to someone deeply committed to the professionalism of our armed forces I can see what he found...peculiar. I don't dismiss you experience, Dog. Perhaps anyone who's watched the documentary film Armadillo would also wonder about the level of professionalism of some of the troops committed to combat service in Afghanistan and Iraq.
And the irony of referencing them is that they represent an example of exactly what I'm talking about. Votevets was founded in opposition to the war in Iraq. It was veterans of Iraq coming out against the war. (Although in terms of membership there are auspiciously few veterans among their ranks... relatively speaking. They boast 500,000 supporters, 20,000 due paying members, of which 1,000 are veterans. Wow, that's impressive. 