Trump + Putin + Helsinki Press Conference = More Hysteria

[_Ceeboo]

I'm worried about the unbridgeable political divide that this country finds itself in.

Our country has "found" this, and many other, political divides throughout its history - don't be arrogant about it, this is not unique to our system, nor should it be

While I understand that divides play significant roles in politics - in my opinion, the divide has never been as wide as it is now. There is deep hatred between fellow American citizens towards other fellow American citizens directly because of differing political views. There is wide spread mass bigotry and complete intolerance all over the country.

It is an unbridgeable divide at this point and I have no idea what could (or will) change this.

[_Chap]

Trump will be long gone (perhaps as soon as 2020?) but you know who will remain? The millions and millions of American citizens who are now being labeled as a Nazi or a racist or a fascist - And why are these millions upon millions on American citizens being labeled these disgusting and horrific things? Because they exercised their constitutional right to cast a vote - nothing more.

"millions and millions of American citizens who are now being labeled as a Nazi or a racist or a fascist"

And you talk about 'hysteria'?

I doubt very much that many Trump voters are waking up in the morning and shouting to their spouse 'Hey, honey! Someone in Peoria has just labelled me a (whatever)! Come and look! How can I go to work with this label all over me? It's so horrible!"

Try to calm down.

These people aren't babies, and and the majority seem to be proud of the way they voted.

Not sure I would choose the word "proud" (Especially given the only two choices available) but yes, many many were (and in my opinion still are) not regretting the choice they made.

They don't need you to shield them from criticism on the grounds that 'all they did was cast a vote'.

I wasn't shielding anyone. I was stating a fact. You need not like or accept the fact, but it is fact all the same.

Voting in a democracy involves taking responsibility for your choice. Doesn't it?

It is perfectly reasonable to expect Trump voters who don't regret voting for Trump to take responsibility for the things that the man they elected is doing now they have made him President. And a lot of those things are pretty bad for the US.

As the consequences come in (such as the demonisation of a free press in tweet after tweet, and rally speech after rally speech), it is quite reasonable to say to Trump voters "This is happening because of the way you voted. Are you happy with that?"

[_Ceeboo]

Trump will be long gone (perhaps as soon as 2020?) but you know who will remain? The millions and millions of American citizens who are now being labeled as a Nazi or a racist or a fascist - And why are these millions upon millions on American citizens being labeled these disgusting and horrific things? Because they exercised their constitutional right to cast a vote - nothing more.

"millions and millions of American citizens who are now being labeled as a Nazi or a racist or a fascist"

And you talk about 'hysteria'?

Ohh really?

Okay, there were approximately 60 million American citizens that voted for Trump. Of those 60 million people, how many of them do you think are seen as a "racist" or a "nazi" or a "sexist" or a "homophobe" by countless people who hold differing political views?

I doubt very much that many Trump voters are waking up in the morning and shouting to their spouse 'Hey, honey! Someone in Peoria has just labelled me a (whatever)! Come and look! How can I go to work with this label all over me? It's so horrible!"

You completely miss the point (again)

It isn't about someone saying "how can I go to work, someone labeled me a racist". It is about the effect that such a thing has on a an entire society/community. It is about wildly and irrationally applying these disgusting labels upon their neighbors, co-workers, football coaches, friend's parents, dance instructors, factory workers, dentists, mailmen (you know, the very people that they share their world with) because and only because of a Presidential election vote they cast. And, by the way, every person has this right to cast their vote in any way they see fit - and they sure as hell need not to explain or defend it to you, or me, or any other person living in this country.

Try to calm down.

Try to keep up.

Voting in a democracy involves taking responsibility for your choice.

What the frick is that suppose to mean (or imply). Do you know what factors played a role in every person's vote? I sure don't but I can assure you that there is a wide variety of reasons and the variety itself is surely composed of different reasons.

Does everybody who voted for Hillary have to "take responsibility for their choice?" And to who must they be responsible to? Me? You? The Friday night bowling team?

It is perfectly reasonable to expect Trump voters who don't regret voting for Trump to take responsibility for the things that the man they elected is doing now they have made him President.

What are you talking about?
Are you suggesting that they "take responsibility" for his tweets? How about his goldfish? Should 60 plus million American citizens share the responsibility of feeding his fish? How about bathing? Should the Trump voters be responsible for the cleanliness of his feet?

What about past Presidents? Who should be held responsible for JFK having affairs? Or Busch's brother having too many adult beverages? Should these responsibilities rest squarely one the American citizens who voted for them?

And a lot of those things are pretty bad for the US.

That sure looks like an opinion.

by the way - perhaps not that many on this particular discussion board but I'm fairly confident that there are at least a few dozen American citizens, somewhere in this vast country, that would disagree with you.
Hell they might even go so far as to suggest a few things that they believe are quite good: Curbing the Iran deal, cutting government regulations, Justice Gorsuch.

As the consequences come in (such as the demonisation of a free press in tweet after tweet, and rally speech after rally speech), it is quite reasonable to say to Trump voters "This is happening because of the way you voted. Are you happy with that?"

That's beyond hilarious - Free speech in this country is certainly being attacked but it's attack is coming from the far left and the ever-growing social justice warrior crowd. Trust me when I suggest, generally speaking, that you need not worry about the American conservatives when it comes to protecting and defending everyones right to free speech.

[_Themis]

Yeah - Thankfully it was just enough or we would have had the only other option.

What do you think she would have done as president that makes her a worse option than Trump?

[_Kishkumen]

Yeah - Thankfully it was just enough or we would have had the only other option.

What do you think she would have done as president that makes her a worse option than Trump?

A competent job?

[_Ceeboo]

Yeah - Thankfully it was just enough or we would have had the only other option.

What do you think she would have done as president that makes her a worse option than Trump?

How much time do you have?

Slightly more seriously though ...... As I have said a number of time on this very board, I can't believe the two choices that American citizens were faced with. As I type this, I still can't believe it.

Having said that, it is my opinion that she would have been a monumental disaster for this country! In addition to her being the epitome of a deeply cemented, severely corrupt and deceitful member of the establishment - I believe her obvious disdain and contempt for millions of her fellow American citizens is way too much for me to have even considered voting for her. I did not!

Would you like a sample? Here's a 2016 clip from the BBC

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/election-us ... eplorables

I wonder what she thinks about those same millions of her fellow Americans after she lost the election: From an article written about a speech she gave in India - March of 2018

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She first explained that Trump voters are stupid poor people: "what the map doesn't show you is that I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's gross domestic product. So I won the places that are optimistic, diverse, dynamic, moving forward."

But Clinton wasn't done. She then stated that Trump voters are ignoramuses who still stumble out to their outhouses in the middle of the night and stoop over a hole in the ground while reading old copies of Ku Klux Klan newsletters. Those people, she said, fell prey to Trump's racist "Elmer Gantry" pitch: "you didn't like black people getting rights. You don't like women ... getting jobs. You don't want to ... see that Indian-American succeeding more than you are. Whatever your problem is, I'm going to solve it."

For good measure, Clinton tore into women who voted for Trump as well — and suggested that they are all little Tammy Wynettes standing by their men. "(W)e don't do well with married white women," Clinton explained. "And part of that is an identification with the Republican Party, and a sort of ongoing pressure to vote the way that your husband, your boss, your son, whoever believes you should." Yes, women who voted Republican only did so because they are afraid that ol' Bob is going to come home, get the beatin' stick out of the closet and start a-whoopin' and a-whalin' on the little woman.

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Your turn Themis:

What are some of the things that support your belief that she would have been a great choice for the President of the USA? Remember, there are some people that believe you must be held accountable for your personal vote and you must "take responsibility" on her behalf.

[_Ceeboo]

This is an interesting spot to post this:

I was thinking about something - How many times have you seen a member of this board call another member of this board a racist? Yeah, a whole lot of times right? To be clear, I'm not suggesting that there weren't times that the label was just. There surely were. I'm simply saying it happens quite a bit.

But in all of those times, how many times has the member who was called a racist been a member who is politically left leaning? I can't think of a single time (with the exception of me doing it a time or two)

Can you think of any examples?
Is it just coincidence?
Is it possible that there has never been a racist post made on this board, ever, by a member who wasn't/isn't right leaning?
Is it possible that there are many but I just missed all the them?
Do you think it's odd?
Has any of you ever read a racist comment made by a member who was/is left leaning?


Just wondering........

[_honorentheos]

...it is my opinion that she would have been a monumental disaster for this country! In addition to her being the epitome of a deeply cemented, severely corrupt and deceitful member of the establishment - I believe her obvious disdain and contempt for millions of her fellow American citizens is way too much for me to have even considered voting for her. I did not!

Would you like a sample? Here's a 2016 clip from the BBC

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/election-us ... eplorables

I wonder what she thinks about those same millions of her fellow Americans after she lost the election: From an article written about a speech she gave in India - March of 2018

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She first explained that Trump voters are stupid poor people: "what the map doesn't show you is that I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's gross domestic product. So I won the places that are optimistic, diverse, dynamic, moving forward."

But Clinton wasn't done. She then stated that Trump voters are ignoramuses who still stumble out to their outhouses in the middle of the night and stoop over a hole in the ground while reading old copies of Ku Klux Klan newsletters. Those people, she said, fell prey to Trump's racist "Elmer Gantry" pitch: "you didn't like black people getting rights. You don't like women ... getting jobs. You don't want to ... see that Indian-American succeeding more than you are. Whatever your problem is, I'm going to solve it."

For good measure, Clinton tore into women who voted for Trump as well — and suggested that they are all little Tammy Wynettes standing by their men. "(W)e don't do well with married white women," Clinton explained. "And part of that is an identification with the Republican Party, and a sort of ongoing pressure to vote the way that your husband, your boss, your son, whoever believes you should." Yes, women who voted Republican only did so because they are afraid that ol' Bob is going to come home, get the beatin' stick out of the closet and start a-whoopin' and a-whalin' on the little woman.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This doesn't seem like a critique of her abilities as chief executive of the Nation.

I mentioned in your other thread that ended poorly that for all the argument that racism isn't central to what it means to be conservative today it sure seemed to be the sensitive spot. In this critique of Clinton, it isn't that her economic policies were going to bad for the country, or we'd have seen the current runaway climate change results in 2017 instead of 2018. Or that the deficit would be even higher under Clinton than Trump, or that the manufacturing industry was doomed because of X, Y and Z that she had campaigned to do.

Your turn Themis:

What are some of the things that support your belief that she would have been a great choice for the President of the USA? Remember, there are some people that believe you must be held accountable for your personal vote and you must "take responsibility" on her behalf.

I'm sure you'll tell me I'm not Themis if you respond at all, but here's mine:

Clinton campaigned on the following key issues:

A tax plan that focused on keeping middle income American taxes at the same level while increasing taxes on the top 1%. The results were estimated to increase Federal Revenue by around $1 trillion dollars over 10 years.

Keeping what worked in the Affordable Care Act while seeking to fix problems.

Immigration reform, including making DACA law.

Rather than tariffs and a trade war, the she had discussed the 21st C. manufacturing economy being based on who out of the US, Germany or China was going to end up on top in the high end, sophisticated technology market. And her goals were aimed at seeing us be that top dog. Instead, we're trying to restore a few hundred jobs through protectionist measures and rolling back environmental protections. Oh, yeah, speaking of -

Rather than seeing the EPA gutted and regulations on everything from coal powered plants to car emissions reversed even as we watch the world burn before our eyes, the Obama admin. path of balancing regulation with the state of the economy was the basis of her environmental platform.

She picked up free tuition from Bernie Sanders for middle and lower income students at state colleges and universities to build that 21st C. workforce we were talking about.

She was vocal in stating her main goal with the Supreme Court was to see Citizens United overturned. Given she would have taken office and probably had a justice pick day one, this step in getting money out of politics would have done more to legitimately drain the swamp than anything Trump's cronyism has accomplished.

Those are what come to mind. It would be nice to have a President who knew the basics about how a democracy works and didn't idolize authoritarian regimes around the world as well.

[_honorentheos]

This is an interesting spot to post this:

I was thinking about something - How many times have you seen a member of this board call another member of this board a racist? Yeah, a whole lot of times right? To be clear, I'm not suggesting that there weren't times that the label was just. There surely were. I'm simply saying it happens quite a bit.

But in all of those times, how many times has the member who was called a racist been a member who is politically left leaning? I can't think of a single time (with the exception of me doing it a time or two)

Can you think of any examples?
Is it just coincidence?
Is it possible that there has never been a racist post made on this board, ever, by a member who wasn't/isn't right leaning?
Is it possible that there are many but I just missed all the them?
Do you think it's odd?
Has any of you ever read a racist comment made by a member who was/is left leaning?


Just wondering........

Subbie pulls the racist card fairly often, but yeah it is certainly a label used by the left more so as a means of shaming. With this board, though, it is difficult to see it as misused that much given ajax is an open member of a white nationalist board who is apparently proud to admit being racist. I have to think that makes any balanced analysis difficult.

[_Kishkumen]

Ceeboo, you didn’t answer the question. The answer to the question, by the way, is that she would have understood the issues, read documents that crossed her desk, not started a trade war, not sold out our intelligence services in favor of a dictator thug named Putin, not spent her time tweeting and watching FOX News talk about her, not golfed 127 days and counting, etc., etc.

She would also not accomplished much with a legislature dominated by the party that makes bank hating her viscerally, so much so that Ceeboo is convinced she would have been terrible because she’s as deft rhetorically and cuddly as a constipated Mitt Romney.

Still, I would have vastly preferred to see her in the Oval Office to the grafting, dangerous, traitorous, joke of a feckless idiot who currently occupies the office.