A taste of Prager U

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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

canpakes wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:It took two seconds to google the issue. 3 out of 8 were in majority black precincts, one was closed because no one showed up, and the other was moved because of fear of black on black violence. Most people aren't even voting at polling stations now. EA crapping out this kind of lying and disingenous nonsense that infects our Party is exactly the problem, and good people like Canpakes gobbles it up. It takes an inordinate amount of time to fact check and counter these lies, and when yoh do people like EA are onto the next one. Basically he and his ilk are Leftist Trump's.

This is the game, and this is why bridging the divide will never happen.


To be fair to EA's original post, the matter of closing polling places is only one of several issues mentioned.

I didn't see a reference for the claim about one or more polling places being shut down because "no one showed up". This seems to be a bad precedent, shutting down locations based upon attendance during one unspecified election cycle (local election, or national? Primary, or general? Did the weather suck? etc.), especially given the relative importance of the one this November.

As well, the claim about the need to shut some locations down due to failure to meet ADA compliance sounds suspiciously convenient to an unspecified agenda, while allowing plausible deniability of bad intent. Here, Ceeboo has the correct idea - temporary modifications can make 'non-compliant' locations meet requirements. See the following guide, first few pages:

https://www.ada.gov/votingchecklist.pdf

And if these locations were deemed non-salvageable (strange, given that they've presumably served the public until this point), then were alternate or replacement locations specified? Or is the authority that is shutting them down content simply to let the public once served by those locations to have to go much farther to seek out a place to vote?

These are the sorts of actions that need to be carefully examined for validity and intent. It's not enough to simply accept these sorts of action and the reasons given for doing so at face value, without appropriate follow through and implementation of alternatives that ensure the ability of all Americans to exercise their right to vote.


Crazy idea here... Go to another polling station? Vote by mail?

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_honorentheos
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _honorentheos »

canpakes wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:It took two seconds to google the issue. 3 out of 8 were in majority black precincts, one was closed because no one showed up, and the other was moved because of fear of black on black violence. Most people aren't even voting at polling stations now. EAllusion crapping out this kind of lying and disingenous nonsense that infects our Party is exactly the problem, and good people like Canpakes gobbles it up. It takes an inordinate amount of time to fact check and counter these lies, and when yoh do people like EAllusion are onto the next one. Basically he and his ilk are Leftist Trump's.

This is the game, and this is why bridging the divide will never happen.


To be fair to EAllusion's original post,...

Cam outright misrepresented his own source. EA's point turned out to be fairly spot on based on not just the sources I looked at but the one Cam referenced as well.

The ACLU is arguing the ADA complaint is deeply suspicious given the exact same locations were just used for primary votings but now that there is a chance of a female black governor being elected suddenly these counties are going to shut down polls in poor rural areas with majority black voters. Hmm.

To be fair to EA's original post, that's sketchy as “F”.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

BS. My source was accurate as were my comments.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_honorentheos
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _honorentheos »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:____. My source was accurate as were my comments.

- Doc

Oh? Your comment on your source was,

3 out of 8 were in majority black precincts, one was closed because no one showed up, and the other was moved because of fear of black on black violence. Most people aren't even voting at polling stations now. EAllusion crapping out this kind of lying and disingenous nonsense that infects our Party is exactly the problem, and good people like Canpakes gobbles it up. It takes an inordinate amount of time to fact check and counter these lies, and when yoh do people like EAllusion are onto the next one. Basically he and his ilk are Leftist Trump's.

There were dozens of stations closed according to your source, the main cause cited was to save costs, and your summary was a gross misrepresentation of the discussion in the article.

EA's original comment was -

Georgia is systematically closing down polling locations in areas with large black population density. It’s also finding way to systematically purge black voters from registration lists. The suppressive effect of this is large enough to be old timey Jim Crow levels of disenfranchisement.

You called that a lie. Your source supports EA's claim. You claimed fact checking proved EA wrong while you apparently misrepresented what you yourself read. Or, maybe something else happened? What's up with that, Cam?
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Ill copy and pastenin a sec. im at da gym.

- Doc

ps - note zero sympathy for black servicemembers losing their votes
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_canpakes
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _canpakes »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Crazy idea here... Go to another polling station? Vote by mail?

- Doc

Voting by mail introduces its own set of potential problems, but is definitely on the rise:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes ... -mail.html

I do like the option, though, and used it often in AZ. And it seems like it should be generally convenient for folks in compromised or disabled situations. But some folks are just into voting in person, for one reason or another, be they suspicious about how a ballot is handled after being dropped off in a mail box, or because they like the social interaction involved with exercising their voting right in person, or whatever.

Getting to another polling station could be problematic, especially if you're talking about poorer folks, people without cars, or disabled individuals. And this introduces another subtle aspect of 'white privilege' (I figure you'll be keen for another one, lol), this being that poorer folks and minorities generally have more limitations on getting the time to vote than folks outside of those demographics, or generally have a more difficult experience getting to polling stations when the number of them is limited. This happened in Maricopa County a few years back - there was a severe cutback on the number of available voting locations, and a fair amount of chaos resulted.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/po ... /82174876/
_honorentheos
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _honorentheos »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:ps - note zero sympathy for black servicemembers losing their votes

There are so many versions of the claim out there I'm not sure what you are referencing. Perhaps you could point out the source?
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

https://politics.myajc.com/news/state-- ... 6yblbB68M/

Cost-cutting moves spur fears about reducing access to Georgia voters

Memorial Gym in Macon was under renovation in February when local election officials suggested a new temporary polling place for voters in the majority-black neighborhood: the Sheriff’s Office.
Local officials said it was a sincere effort to find a safe location to host voters. Residents, who have seen several polling sites close and have raised concerns about racial profiling by police, decided they’d had enough.

“When voter suppression still exists and when we have to stand up for what we believe in and what is right, we will do it,” said Gwen Westbrooks, who helped organize a response that stopped the move.

Dozens of polling places have closed, consolidated or moved across Georgia since the last presidential election, worrying some voter advocates over how that might affect turnout heading into this year’s contest.

Local officials say the closures are money-savers and more efficient, especially at a time when there is increased access to early voting. Some voter activists, however, fear it is a tactic to limit voting access, especially for the state’s minorities.

Proposals to close voting precincts in counties including Macon-Bibb, Hancock and Upson have all raised the ire of activists. Other counties have considered changes but either haven’t acted on them or have passed on the idea.

“There were many factors that influenced our decision, but none of them had anything to do with race or making it more difficult for anyone to vote,” said Robert Haney, the chairman of the Upson County Board of Elections, which cut its polling sites from nine to four. Haney said reasons for the cuts included security and a struggle to find qualified poll workers.

The estimated savings, he said, would be between $15,000 and $20,000. And the use of early voting in Upson, he said, meant about half of voters normally cast ballots before Election Day, anyway. “That factored greatly into our decision,” Haney said.

“We had precincts where only a handful of people were showing up to vote on the day of the election,” he said.

In Macon-Bibb County, several of the eight polling locations closed since last year were in majority-black communities — a point exacerbated by the attempt to use the Sheriff’s Office building as a polling site. Local election officials cited concerns over violence in proposing the move, but Westbrooks — who used to live in the community near Memorial Gym and is now president of the Macon-Bibb NAACP chapter — said it sent “the wrong message” among residents who had raised concerns about local law enforcement in recent years.

The voting precinct has since been relocated twice and will now be placed permanently at a church.

Macon-Bibb County Elections Officer Tom Gillon said the closures were based on budget cuts, stemming from the merger two years ago of what had been separate city and county governments. The county has dropped from 40 to 32 polling locations.

“They asked every department to cut their budgets, and poll workers were a large part of our budget,” Gillon said. “If the county showed us more money, we would have 50 precincts.”

The local cuts have come as Georgia has been pushed to the center of a national debate this year on voting access. Advocates have sued the state this year over voter registration denials and allegations of voter roll purges, among other other issues. Groups have also sued or threatened legal action over decisions such as the proposal to move the Macon-Bibb precinct into the Sheriff’s Office building.

For many local officials, however, the push to close or consolidate polling locations stems from the idea that as early voting increases voter access, it lessens the need to have as many Election Day polling sites. Using fewer sites saves money, they say, because it means paying fewer poll workers and reducing other expenses.

Fayette County has just begun discussions that could see it shrink from 36 locations to 19 — although no decision will be made until after the Nov. 8 presidential election. Local election officials estimate it would save thousands of dollars, although they don’t have a final tally yet and are still doing a cost analysis.

“We have 36 polling locations — that’s too much,” said Leigh Combs, Fayette’s elections officer, who said it had been more than 30 years since the county had considered such a wholesale change.

“When those were set up, that was long before absentee voting could be done for no reason, and we didn’t have the three weeks of early (in-person) voting and we didn’t have Saturday voting,” Combs said. “We have polling locations that are literally across the street from each other. Just in Peachtree City, we have five or six that are right together.”

Critics, however, say the effect of such change is heightened this year in states such as Georgia, which used to be subject to a federal elections mandate known as “Section 5” of the national Voting Rights Act. It required jurisdictions with a history of racial discrimination to seek approval from the Justice Department or federal courts before making changes to voting rules.

A 2013 U.S. Supreme Court decision, however, struck down that provision. Advocates fear it may have opened the floodgates.

Hancock County, which is part of an ongoing lawsuit over a purge of its voter rolls last year, proposed last year to consolidate several precincts, including one as far away as 17 miles from the one proposed location in downtown Sparta. The county eventually relented, closing just one location, but not until after an outcry by groups including the Georgia NAACP, the Georgia Coalition for the People’s Agenda and the national Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law that said the planned closures would have disproportionately affected voters in the majority-black county who live in poor or rural areas with no access to regular transportation.

At a rally earlier this month on the steps of the Hancock County Courthouse, Sparta Mayor William Evans Jr. said residents who may have been complacent about voting got served a wake-up call.

But local officials said they keep the public in mind when making decisions about polling places.

Tift County, in south-central Georgia, recently considered closing all but one of its 12 polling locations after several years of discussions about how to become more efficient.

Casandra Fallin, the county elections supervisor, said the idea was inspired by nearby Lowndes County — which in the past decade has gone from 37 precincts to nine. One of them covers an area the size of Tift County.

“We were trying to make it more convenient for everyone to have one location to go to,” Fallin said. “But with the feedback we received from the public, from the elderly and people who walk to the polls and everything, we don’t want to do anything to hurt anyone.”

The county has now dropped the idea, Fallin said, and there are no plans to revisit it.


I won't hold my breath for an apology.

Note: Several in this instance is used to give the reader the impression more than three were closed. If it were four out of eight the author most definitely would've said half the polling stations were closed. It's three, and again, how many of those stations were in majority white precincts? Not that anyone here would give two craps about that, though.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_honorentheos
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Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _honorentheos »

Wow.

EA made a point about polling stations throughout Georgia and you posted, "3 out of 8 were in majority black precincts, one was closed because no one showed up, and the other was moved because of fear of black on black violence." You misrepresented the causes, the quantity of precincts involved, and the nature of the issue. You ignored the ACLU complaint in your claim to supposedly research the issue despite it being the first hits in most google searches on the subject. You misrepresented the facts while claiming EA was guilty of doing this. You framed your comment to make it look like EA was exaggerating while not actually conveying a reasonably accurate summary of your own source. Now you're adding an unsubstantiated argument about potential white majority precincts being closed and asking others to chase that rock you threw into the brush as a distraction.

The apology should be given not expected on your part, Cam.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_canpakes
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Re: A taste of Prager U

Post by _canpakes »

Lol. I love this line:
We were trying to make it more convenient for everyone to have one location to go to,” Fallin said. “But with the feedback we received from the public, from the elderly and people who walk to the polls and everything, we don’t want to do anything to hurt anyone.”

Because multiple locations of something, some perhaps closer to where I live, would be less convenient. ; )

Thank goodness I live in a state that doesn’t yet seem to need to balance its books by cutting back on voting access.
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