Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

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_Ceeboo
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _Ceeboo »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Ceeboo wrote:Al Jazeera?


Close! It's Rick Wiles:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Wiles

If you read the wiki article it's very interesting the scope and breadth of his influence and with whom he shares his philosophies. People on the Right like to trot Antifa out as a bogeyman, which they're 100% justified in doing so, however the Right has a serious problem with extremism and extremist rhetoric. These guys aren't ____ around, and Mr. Wiles is just one of hundreds of influential Rightists who pose, in my opinion, a direct threat to our democracy.

- Doc


I knew I was close!

Anyway - To not recognize the obvious - that there are extremists that exist on both sides - is to selectively make a conscious choice to live in a fantasy world that provides the shelter, comfort and limited vision that is required to live in said world.

One of the problems (in my view - bias filled and myopic as it may be) is that, for example, the extreme right (KKK - White Nationalists - Etc) is easily recognizable. The red flags are huge and illuminated and if individuals wanted to, they can box them in. The extreme left, for a variety of reasons, isn't quite as easy to identify. The red flags are not as large nor can they been seen with the benefit of flashing neon signs. Thus, they are much more difficult to point out and box in, should folks want to point them out or box them in.

Just a few thoughts as I see it.
_EAllusion
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

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Anyway - To not recognize the obvious - that there are extremists that exist on both sides - is to selectively make a conscious choice to live in a fantasy world that provides the shelter, comfort and limited vision that is required to live in said world.


Rick Wiles, while a lunatic conspiracy theorist, is a mainstream figure with a large audience within the religious right media-verse. If you're gonna "both sides" that, you have do more than merely demonstrate that there exists someone, somewhere, with equally bad takes on the left. You have to show that such people hold as much influence. Because the issue being discussed isn't just that people like Rick Wiles exist. It's that they are notable players in the thoughts and actions of self-described conservatives and that this is bad. It's worth reading the article I linked from the researchers the OP is about. Black bloc anarchists marching under the Antifa label and beating up people holding American flags is awful, but it's not the same thing as this.

One of the things that Wiles is known for, captured in Doc's quote, is agitating his audience to believe that liberals are on the verge of a revolutionary attack on conservatives. Wiles isn't the only one to do this. Variations on this theme is pervasive in the right-wing media at the moment and that percolates up the right-wing media chain in various ways if you are attuned to it. Then you have people like Ajax on this very board almost giddy for a civil war because of his exposure to that rhetoric.
_Ceeboo
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

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EAllusion wrote:
One of the things that Wiles is known for, captured in Doc's quote, is agitating his audience to believe that liberals are on the verge of a revolutionary attack on conservatives. Wiles isn't the only one to do this. This is a theme that is pervasive in the right-wing media at the moment and that percolates up the right-wing media chain in various ways if you are attuned to it. Then you have people like Ajax on this very board almost giddy for a civil war because of his exposure to that rhetoric.



Extremism experts are starting to worry about the left

By Joshua Hersh Jun 15, 2017

WASHINGTON — In the spring of 2016, Brian Levin found himself in an uncomfortable position: trying to save the life of a Ku Klux Klan member.

Levin, a former New York City cop who studies domestic extremism as the director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, was documenting a Klan rally in Anaheim, California, when a counterprotest suddenly took a violent swing — forcing Levin to physically place himself between a Klansman and a furious, anti-fascist mob that seemed ready to kill.

It made Levin wonder if in his focus on the obvious subject — the white supremacists — he’d overlooked a growing source of extremism: the far left. “At that point, I said we have something coalescing on the hard left,” Levin told VICE News.

Wednesday morning’s shooting of Republican lawmakers at a baseball practice in Virginia seemed to raise the question again. The shooter, James T. Hodgkinson, was a Bernie Sanders-supporting man from Illinois with a record of anti-Trump rantings on social media. His politics have quickly become a talking point among some conservative pundits seeking a quick political score: proof of a looming leftist campaign against the government.

Experts in homegrown extremism say it’s not so simple — Hodgkinson had no known association to any left-wing extremist group. But they also say that the past few months have seen enough of a rise in politically motivated violence from the far left that monitors of right-wing extremism have begun shifting their focus, and sounding the alarm. They see indications that the uptick in extremist rhetoric and anti-government activism that characterized the early years of the Obama presidency are beginning to manifest on the far left in the early days of Trump’s, and that the two sides are increasingly headed for confrontation.

“I think we’re in a time when we can’t ignore the extremism from the Left,” said Oren Segal, the director of the Center on Extremism, an arm of the Anti-Defamation League. Over the past few months, the ADL, which hosts regular seminars on homegrown extremism for law enforcement officials, has begun warning of the rising threat posed by far-left groups, most recently at a seminar just this past Sunday. “When we have anti-fascist counterprotests — not that they are the same as white supremacists — that can ratchet up the violence at these events, and it means we can see people who are violent on their own be attracted to that,” Segal said. “I hate to say it, but it feels inevitable.”

The evidence is so far largely anecdotal. Levin says that since December 2015, he’s documented nearly two-dozen episodes in California where political events turned violent because of agitation on both sides, something he says he hardly ever saw before. Now, there are violent clashes on college campuses involving groups like Antifa, the anti-fascist group, taking on the alt-right; and aggressive anti-Trump rallies attended by members of the Redneck Revolt, a new pro-minority, anti-supremacist group that encourages its members to train with rifles. Online, hard leftists increasingly discuss politics in dire terms, and rationalize violence as a necessity— even the true inheritor of traditional progressive activism. (Or, in the case of the “Punch a Nazi” meme, a fun game.)

Left-wing extremism, of course, is nothing new. Groups like the Weather Underground and the Black Panthers have deep roots, and in the years after 9/11, Segal says, the largest source of extremist violence was from the Left: eco-terrorists and animal rights activists. But those later organizations mostly targeted institutions; in the modern era, politically motivated violence perpetrated by angry lone-wolf attackers bearing automatic rifles, of the sort carried out in Wednesday’s attack, has until now largely been a modus operandi of the far right.

In a recent interview with VICE News Tonight, a chapter leader of one newly formed anti-fascist group called Redneck Revolt said the group has taken up guns only in self-defense. “We are a response to a rise in politically motivated violence and intimidation against vulnerable communities,” said the chapter leader, who asked to be identified only by a first name, Mitch. “That doesn’t mean that we’re, like, looking for a fight. We’re just trying to defend ourselves.”

Redneck Revolt doesn’t self-identify as “left,” but its ideals tend to fall along the liberal side of the spectrum: pro-Muslim, pro-immigrant, pro-LGBT, anti–economic inequality. But Mitch said that as the group has reached out to other organizations, like the local Three Percenter Militia, a largely right-wing, anti-Obama group, they found unlikely sources of commonality, particularly in their focus on local sovereignty, and general concerns about the direction of the country. Some former members of Three Percenters have even become involved in their activities — after “extensive vetting,” Mitch said.

Chris Hamilton, an expert on American extremist movements at Washburn University in Topeka, Kansas, says anti-authoritarian sentiment may be blurring what once seemed to be clear ideological lines. “If you think about it, leftists never joined the National Rifle Association — unless they were radicals, they never thought about stockpiling weapons,” he said. “Ok. Well, maybe we’re entering a period where leftists will start thinking about things in that way, like the eco-radicals did in the ’70s.”

Hamilton says that as he browses far-left websites and listens to left-wing talk radio, he hears some of the same sentiments he’s been hearing for years on the right. “These days, that kind of sentiment is popping up in the middle and on the left; it’s not just in the sovereign citizen movement,” he said. “I’m really worried about rising civil strife in the U.S.”

Levin is worried about it too: The embrace by the far left of tactics that were previously the purview of the far right means the level of political tension in the country can only go up. “I’ve been going up and down the state of California meeting with law enforcement officials about this. I’m very concerned about it,” he said. “What we’re seeing is the democratization of extremism and the tactics of radicalism. I’ve been warning about this, and nobody gave a crap.”
_EAllusion
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

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ajax18 wrote:I thought of you EAllusion when I was googling the possibility of abolishing social security. I was quite surprised to see Gary Johnson's name come up. I bet you're glad you didn't ultimately support him given your love of the program.


I support social safety nets, but I hardly can be described as someone who loves SS compared to the average American. I fairly open to the new-wave libertarian support of Universal Basic Income as a replacement for various social welfare programs including SS.
_EAllusion
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _EAllusion »

Ceeboo wrote:

Extremism experts are starting to worry about the left



Do you think this article demonstrates that the left is on verge of revolution? Left-wing mobs are comparatively tiny, have zero political power, and virtually no meaningful influence on broader American liberalism. Should we be concerned about occasional protester clashes between left-wing extremists and right-wing counterparts where the general public gets caught up in it? Yep. Should we even be concerned that the new version of left-wing violence might result in lone-wolf style attacks right-wing extremists are known for? Yeah, that seems like a reasonable concern. Is it possible that the left-wing extremists will self-organize into something resembling the right-wing militia movement? I suppose, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Should we be concerned that this is going to spiral into a revolutionary coup of the sort Wiles is saying is coming any day now? No, that's absolutely crazy, but also a feature of religious right radio.
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

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Maksutov wrote:Michiko Kakutani, the cultural critic and author of “The Death of Truth,” blames the relativism that facilitated Trump’s rise on “academics promoting the gospel of postmodernism.” Lamenting the state of American politics under Trump, philosopher Daniel Dennett said in an interview last year, “I think what the postmodernists did was truly evil.” And when Rudy Giuliani recently told NBC’s Chuck Todd that “truth isn’t truth,” Vox claimed that it wasn’t “the first time Trump’s legal team has played postmodernist and hinted that it might be too hard to discern the truth because it’s all relative anyway.”


I've thought about this, but I'm not sure there is anything to it. The main connective tissue here would be journalists being taught in school that the ideal of objectivity is naïve, there is no such thing, and that instead they should aim to not editorialize by always telling "both sides." That's mentality producing false balance between bad ideas and good ones, deception and truth, is without a doubt a major reason why we're in this mess. The thing is, I have never seen a demonstration that specific postmodern ideas in the humanities actually produced this culture within journalism schools or media outlets. Until I see that, I'm not going to go ahead and blame postmodernists for anything.

Giuliani isn't invoking postmodernist thought when he says "Truth isn't truth." He's just behaving like a mob lawyer.
_Ceeboo
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

Post by _Ceeboo »

EAllusion wrote:
Ceeboo wrote:
Extremism experts are starting to worry about the left


Do you think this article demonstrates that the left is on verge of revolution? Left-wing mobs are comparatively tiny, have zero political power, and virtually no meaningful influence on broader American liberalism.


I think that recognizing extremism as extremism (no matter what side of the political isle they attach their extremism to) is significantly important. Political extremism, no matter where it comes from, places American liberties squarely on unstable footing. in my opinion, political extremism ought to be boxed in and condemned wherever and whenever it shows up. YMMV.
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

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Ceeboo wrote:I think that recognizing extremism as extremism (no matter what side of the political isle they attach their extremism to) is significantly important. Political extremism, no matter where it comes from, places American liberties squarely on unstable footing. in my opinion, political extremism ought to be boxed in and condemned wherever and whenever it shows up. YMMV.


Who do you imagine here is not opposed to violent left-wing extremism? If you think it is equally important to pay attention to and respond to minor threats while ignoring large ones - spending as much effort on Leri Pleonosteosis as Cancer - then you are both naïve and engaged in a inefficient harm reduction strategy. But I don't think that's what's going on here. I think you are engaging in a bit of "Whataboutism" while missing the point. The point is that right-wing extremists like Rick Wiles represent a influential, powerful movement both in terms of numbers and political power while dudes dressed in black showing up to protests to beat up people with homemade weapons do not. The right-wing media ecosystem has a heavy thumb on contemporary conservative thought and politics. The left-wing equivalent does not hold that kind of sway with liberals or the general public. It's obscure.
_EAllusion
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

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I'm in a left-wing enough city that I actually get to listen to true radical left radio on occasion. And when you tune in to that, you can listen to people argue with academic detachment that advocacy of oppression is a form of violence, violence can and should be met with preemptive violence, and conservatism (especially libertarianism weirdly enough) broadly is an ideology of oppression. The implication isn't subtle. That totally happens.

You know what? Very few people listen to them, liberals mostly hate those people, and they don't have massive influence in the party that controls the entire Federal government.
_honorentheos
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Re: Damage Done by the Right-Wing Media in 2016

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EAllusion wrote:
Ceeboo wrote:I think that recognizing extremism as extremism (no matter what side of the political isle they attach their extremism to) is significantly important. Political extremism, no matter where it comes from, places American liberties squarely on unstable footing. in my opinion, political extremism ought to be boxed in and condemned wherever and whenever it shows up. YMMV.


Who do you imagine here is not opposed to violent left-wing extremism? If you think it is equally important to pay attention to and respond to minor threats while ignoring large ones - spending as much effort on Leri Pleonosteosis as Cancer - then you are both naïve and engaged in a inefficient harm reduction strategy. But I don't think that's what's going on here. I think you are engaging in a bit of "Whataboutism" while missing the point. The point is that right-wing extremists like Rick Wiles represent a influential, powerful movement both in terms of numbers and political power while dudes dressed in black showing up to protests to beat up people with homemade weapons do not. The right-wing media ecosystem has a heavy thumb on contemporary conservative thought and politics. The left-wing equivalent does not hold that kind of sway with liberals or the general public. It's obscure.

Yeah, the President recently told a group of evangelical leaders that if the Democrats take Congress it will unleash Antifa and there will be blood in the streets. So it's important we recognize there are equivalent voices on the left like...ummmm….Al Jazeera? Yeah, that's a leftist, fear-and-violence promoting network that has sway over a major voting block in the US.

You know, I actually read Al Jazeera's English edition and I'll give anyone interested a hint on how to recognize an Al Jazeera article. It will focus on things happening to people that would be on heavy rotation on Fox or CNN, but they are happening to people in parts of the world Americans don't realize are places so who cares? Swear to Goddess, I am opening the link right now without previewing it to take todays headlines for an example. And here are the three top stories -

War Unlikely But Iran Should Boost Defense Capabilities

Deadly Suicide Blast Hits Offices, School in Mogadishu

Duterte Eyes Weapons Deal In First Israel Trip

When Al Jazeera reports on the US, it's rarely about us. It's usually reporting on the effects of something we are doing with our money, weapons, and/or politics that affects other people in ways we probably wouldn't be so happy about if it was happening to us. But since it's somewhere we can't spell, we got brunch worries that are more important.

Basically, it's one of the better news sources for getting a non-US_Eurocentric perspective on current events.

Ceeboo wrote:I knew I was close!


Of course you thought that. Al Jazeera...Jesus damned Christ.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
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