Impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective

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_EAllusion
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Re: Impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective

Post by _EAllusion »

On the flipside, Trump right now is getting a ton of public opinion credit for the state of the economy even though it is blindly obvious that we are in approximately the same economic recovery patterns that we've been in since coming off the valley of the Great Recession early in the Obama years. Trump's approvals are actually high compared to where they would be if this wasn't the case. Dude is going to be hella unpopular if we ever face a serious recession while he's president assuming there isn't a rally around the president effect from a terrorist attack or something of that nature.
_honorentheos
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Re: Impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective

Post by _honorentheos »

I think it's difficult to gauge how the public would respond to an impeachment without knowing the details that would lead to it. But one doesn't have to take too many steps away from the liberal base to start hearing people who aren't concerned about Trump's relationship to Russia and view it as essentially Washington inside baseball rather than something that concerns them.

In that light, I don't think we should simply ignore the dynamics involved with what could be seen as a hostile removal of the elected President accompanied by negative economic news in an environment where there are still many people who are not recovered from 10 years ago. We're living in strange times.
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_EAllusion
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Re: Impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective

Post by _EAllusion »

Public opinion might side with Trump during an impeachment, but what won't happen is a bad economy being blamed on Democrats to Trump's benefit. Bad economies have always hurt the party in control of the White House. It's one of the most assured things in all of politics. It can be really dumb, but people attribute economic conditions to executive figures. George H.W. Bush was hosed by it, for instance. It even happens to totalitarian governments with sophisticated means of controlling information flow.

The kind of propaganda blitz to avert that is extraordinarily unlikely at this juncture.
_EAllusion
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Re: Impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective

Post by _EAllusion »

Our entire political era is in significant part explained because voters turned against Obama for economic conditions in 2010. That's levels of dumb that are difficult to take in, but it totally happened.
_honorentheos
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Re: Impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective

Post by _honorentheos »

If this scenario were to occur, I don't think it would be imposed but rise up organically. Both the left and right are experiencing seismic shifts within their ranks to their extremes when it comes to the distrust in government. There are elements, growing elements, in both parties who see the economic news and feel it doesn't reflect what they are experiencing in their lives. I'd argue that the main differences between these two poles are young v. old, and rural v. urban. Old and rural? Populous Trump supporter. Young and urban? Populous Bernie supporter. The economy may still be the most important influence on an election, but for many people in the US it's becoming the ocean to a fish. Trump supporters are only trumpeting the economy now because their guy is in office. I highly doubt folks like Ajax are really living differently today than they were two years ago. And many a progressive would-be socialist is bemoaning the economy today despite it's general unrecognizable difference from the later Obama years in meaningful ways.

So, again, if Trump is to be impeached as the economy actually does start to dip because it's almost inevitable it will at some point, I don't think we can simply write-off the other dynamics involved. Impeaching a president isn't an event with much precedent, and one that is viewed as stemming from the opposition taking Congress is unheard of in US history.

ETA: For example, ceebs commented in his deleted posts in the Fear the Left thread that conservatives have felt they have lacked representation in government for a long time. This, despite having held the presidency 10 of the last 18 years and controlled Congress for meaningful periods over the last 30 years. Why? Because America is a tale of two economies. Both parties claim the other is to blame for why some people are not as well off as their parents or grandparents were, but when that party takes control things don't get better. You and I know it's because the political claims are all mostly lies and half-truths used to just win an election. But to people who sincerely believe the Democrats are taxing them into poverty so welfare queens can sit around watching Oprah and popping out babies on the taxpayers dime the fact Republicans couldn't suddenly make it rain $100 bills is probably legitimately disappointing.

I really think one needs to take this longer perspective into account in much the same way one needed to in order to really understand the Trump takeover of the Republican party. Dismissing it as just latent racism finding a voice is naïve.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

EAllusion wrote:Our entire political era is in significant part explained because voters turned against Obama for economic conditions in 2010. That's levels of dumb that are difficult to take in, but it totally happened.


This is what Trumpers think of America:

https://Twitter.com/Twitter/statuses/10 ... 4067278849

- Doc
Last edited by Guest on Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_MeDotOrg
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Re: Impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective

Post by _MeDotOrg »

Curiously enough: Impetuous, Adversarial, Petty & ineffective are all partners in Rudy Giuliani's law firm.
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_Elphaba
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Re: Impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective

Post by _Elphaba »

Slate Magazine's ". . . Obvious Suspect" for the author of the editorial? Jon Huntsman.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
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_moksha
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Re: Impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective

Post by _moksha »

Trevor Noah compared Trump cabinet officials to people who are afraid to break the glass in case of an emergency and think they can limit the fire by moving paper out of the way and creating a blockade with staplers and wastepaper baskets.
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-spooke ... 39669.html

tl;dr - Trump almost sent a tweet stating he was pulling dependents from South Korea.

Lol. I laugh because of the sheer reckless stupidity of it.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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