Kavanaugh and Perjury

[_EAllusion]

Anywho, Kavanaaugh, a man by all accounts was quite the partier in his high school days, has made it clear to Orin Hatch that he wasn't at this unspecified party at an unspecified location at an unspecified time of year. Case closed. If that's good enough for Hatch, how could that not be good enough for everyone?

[_Chap]

Notice how Doc goes from arguing there isn't enough evidence to implying that lack of sufficient evidence is enough to conclude she isn't a "real victim."

I am not very surprised after all these years that the details that would stick in somebody's head are mainly centred on which two guys tried to rape her at one of the various parties she attended, and how they went about it.

I can remember quite a few events (nice and nasty ones) from around that age very clearly indeed. But the precise dates? Who else was in the vicinity except for me and the persons immediately concerned in the events? Nah. Is that so surprising?

[_EAllusion]

Notice how Doc goes from arguing there isn't enough evidence to implying that lack of sufficient evidence is enough to conclude she isn't a "real victim."

I am not very surprised after all these years that the details that would stick in somebody's head are mainly centred on which two guys tried to rape her at one of the various parties she attended, and how they went about it.

I can remember quite a few events (nice and nasty ones) from around that age very clearly indeed. But the precise dates? Who else was in the vicinity except for me and the persons immediately concerned in the events? Nah. Is that so surprising?

People don't remember traumatic events all that well right after they happen sometimes. It has to do with how the brain functions during extreme fear response events. It's not surprising if she doesn't have every detail down and that fact wouldn't do much to demonstrate her story is false. Of course, it doesn't help her make her case either, but that's the problem here, isn't it? It's not at all Ok to argue that lack of a case he finds persuasive somehow exempts her from the pool of "real victims" who will need support. Lots of "real victims" would be in the same boat as what she is claiming.

[_EAllusion]

Kind of a tangent, but my partner now does forensic nursing in addition to child and adolescent psych nursing. "Forensic nursing" means mostly exams for alleged sexual assault victims. One of the things I've learned from this is, at least in our area, there's a huge number of people going in for sadomasochism gone wrong cases. One patient after another comes in claiming to have consented to some BDSM, it getting out of hand with them asking for it to stop, and then becoming the victim of a brutal assault. My partner of course can verify the injuries, but convictions almost never happen because the alleged perpetrator always claims it was consensual and it becomes a real tough case of one person's word against another.

Like I said, it's tough. On the one hand, if I were on a jury I'd have a hard time convicting someone on the mere say so that consent for sadomashocist sexual activities was given, but then overstepped. On the other hand, I'm certain that's happening to a significant number of people coming in claiming to be victims. If it was near all of them, I wouldn't be surprised. The nature of the crime just makes it really tough to meet a burden of proof necessary to take someone's freedom. At the same time, it would be utterly asinine to claim that these people (mostly women) aren't "real victims" because they don't have enough to prove their case. Failing to prove their case to a sufficient degree of certainty doesn't prove they weren't a victim.

[_Chap]

... it would be utterly asinine to claim that these people (mostly women) aren't "real victims" because they don't have enough to prove their case. Failing to prove their case to a sufficient degree of certainty doesn't prove they weren't a victim.

Yup.

But of course when someone does claim that "these people (mostly women) aren't "real victims" because they don't have enough to prove their case", that does at least prove something about the person making that claim.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Character assassination would become a weapon of the Left, and I think the real victims here are Kavanaugh and his family. Can someone help me find the police report? I haven't been able to scrounge one up, yet.

- Doc

[_Res Ipsa]

Kind of a tangent, but my partner now does forensic nursing in addition to child and adolescent psych nursing. "Forensic nursing" means mostly exams for alleged sexual assault victims. One of the things I've learned from this is, at least in our area, there's a huge number of people going in for sadomasochism gone wrong cases. One patient after another comes in claiming to have consented to some BDSM, it getting out of hand and with them asking for it to stop, and then becoming the victim of a brutal assault. My partner of course can verify the injuries, but convictions almost never happen because the alleged perpetrator always claims it was consensual and it becomes a real tough case of one person's word against another.

Like I said, it's tough. On the one hand, if I were on a jury I'd have a hard time convicting someone on the mere say so that consent for sadomashocist sexual activities was given, but then overstepped. On the other hand, I'm certain that's happening to a significant number of people coming in claiming to be victims. If it was near all of them, I wouldn't be surprised. The nature of the crime just makes it really tough to meet a burden of proof necessary to take someone's freedom. At the same time, it would be utterly asinine to claim that these people (mostly women) aren't "real victims" because they don't have enough to prove their case. Failing to prove their case to a sufficient degree of certainty doesn't prove they weren't a victim.

People often confuse trying to figure out what actually happened with deciding whether the evidence is strong enough to deprive someone of their liberty. In this case, Kavanaugh isn't at risk of losing his liberty. He isn't even at risk of losing his powerful position as a federal appellate judge. He's interview for a job that position on the highest court in the land -- one where he should carry the burden of showing fitness for the position.

[_Res Ipsa]

Character assassination would become a weapon of the Left, and I think the real victims here are Kavanaugh and his family. Can someone help me find the police report? I haven't been able to scrounge one up, yet.

- Doc

You're killing me here Doc. Are you saying that character assassination isn't currently a weapon of the right?

[_EAllusion]

Character assassination would become a weapon of the Left, and I think the real victims here are Kavanaugh and his family. Can someone help me find the police report? I haven't been able to scrounge one up, yet.

- Doc

What's your evidence that Kavanaugh is innocent such that you can call him the victim of a false allegation? That's well past arguing his accuser hasn't sufficiently made her case. Or is it that you think anyone who can't make a case you find convincing should shut up even if they were the victim of an attempted rape?

If your *ahem* evidence of his innocence is the fact that she didn't file a police report in 1982, you might want to consider that lots of women experience sexual assault or attempts at it without filing a police report and failure to do so carries no conclusive force in deciding whether or not it happened.

[_DoubtingThomas]

Character assassination would become a weapon of the Left, and I think the real victims here are Kavanaugh and his family. Can someone help me find the police report? I haven't been able to scrounge one up, yet.

- Doc

Teenagers usually do not report crimes to the police. Why are you making a judgement?

What's your evidence that Kavanaugh is innocent such that you can call him the victim of a false allegation?

Exactly! We simply do not know. But I guess Doc received a spiritual revelation.