TEACHER CLAIMS SHE WAS FIRED FOR VIOLATING 'NO ZERO' POLICY

[_Some Schmo]

I wouldn't have considered teaching again for under $150k/year. I'm not sure you can pay a good teacher what he's worth. You might get more out of the kids by paying them. I know the students I had were not motivated by grades at all.

Let's be honest, ajax. If your posts are at all representative of your true personality, not being motivated by grades was not your students' problem. I highly doubt anyone sees you as any kind of child-whisperer.

Let's not blame the kids; at least, not exclusively.

[_Analytics]

TEACHER CLAIMS SHE WAS FIRED FOR VIOLATING 'NO ZERO' POLICY BY NOT GIVING CREDIT TO STUDENTS WHO DIDN'T TURN IN PROJECT

Reading the article, it's unclear whether she actually was fired for violating the policy, but my comment is this: WTF is up with this policy? Teachers in Florida aren't allowed to give students a zero on an assignment even if they don't turn it in?

Talk about encouraging a sense of entitlement in kids. Damn rightists.

Playing devil's advocate, my understanding is that in typical classes, 50 is still an F. When I was in high school, you needed a 60 for a D, a 70 for a C, etc.

So, to me, the question is what to do with somebody who gets a 0 on half of the assignments and 100 on the other half. Should that be a C or an F?

[_Some Schmo]

So, to me, the question is what to do with somebody who gets a 0 on half of the assignments and 100 on the other half. Should that be a C or an F?

Well, my opinion is an F. Talent is useless without the will to follow though.

Make them do the course again and finish it this time. School is supposed to be a primer for professional life. Teaching kids to be content with half-hearted effort is doing them no favors.

[_canpakes]

No, you pay for what you get....throwing more money at Welch's grape juice doesn't transform it to Armand de Brignac Brut Gold Champagne.

That is one of your stupidest remarks yet! Obviously if we pay teachers a better salary, we attract better, more qualified teachers.

You could make a case for what he’s saying if you want to think one-dimensionally and ignore how the practice of hiring actually works, but he’s either unwilling or incapable to concede that offering a champagne wage does not obligate one to hire a grape juice candidate, and that the champagne candidate likely won’t be signing on for grape juice wages.

[_EAllusion]

So in high school I never turned in any homework. That's not hyperbole. I never did a single assignment and held a sort of twisted pride in that fact. I coasted by because I aced all tests. I've never gotten below a high A on a final. The result of this sketchy behavior on my part was that I did reasonably well in classes where tests were heavily weighted and barely skated by, if that, in classes where homework counted for a lot. I took so many zeros you would not believe it. I continually argued that grades, my grades in particular, should be a reflection of demonstrated knowledge, but there were no shortage of counter arguments for why it was necessary to have so much homework and for it to count so much towards your grade.

When I see newfangled policies like "no homework ever," and "not doing the assignment still nets you a 50%" I feel a mixture of jealousy and anger. In fact, my high school has adopted a grading strategy that would've guaranteed me a perfect GPA if it was in place when I was there. While I was able to go to college just fine, my class rank was terrible and the least appealing thing about my academic credentials. I was born before my time.

[_Some Schmo]

When I see newfangled policies like "no homework ever," and "not doing the assignment still nets you a 50%" I feel a mixture of jealousy and anger. In fact, my high school has adopted a grading strategy that would've guaranteed me a perfect GPA if it was in place when I was there. While I was able to go to college just fine, my class rank was terrible and the least appealing thing about my academic credentials. I was born before my time.

Don't you think you're better off having gone through the experience you did? Are you still of the opinion that homework is unnecessary because testing tells you everything you need to know?

What if someone sucks at taking tests (because they're nervous about it or whatever) but turns in meticulous homework assignments (which, I would argue, also demonstrates knowledge)?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

So, I read the article and I can see both sides as being fair. The district wants students to stay in school (or keep attending) so they don't get so far behind they lose hope and drop out. The teacher basically sees this as a fairness issue for the students who do what's asked of them

I really wonder, well, I believe that academics just isn't for everyone. It's a problem when a school district doesn't identify students who are better suited for the trades, and then puts them on a track with viable training that leads to a certification and job. I'm fairly certain we lack skilled tradesmen across the board, so I don't see the problem with giving kids and parents that alternate path to adulthood.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

Don't you think you're better off having gone through the experience you did? Are you still of the opinion that homework is unnecessary because testing tells you everything you need to know?

What if someone sucks at taking tests (because they're nervous about it or whatever) but turns in meticulous homework assignments (which, I would argue, also demonstrates knowledge)?

I'm all in favor of grades being a means of communicating demonstrated knowledge or talents the class is supposed to impart. A grade is supposed to communicate a person's performance on what the class is intended to teach. Tests aren't the only way to accomplish this, and I'm in favor of any legitimate means of assessing this available. I have no issue with test-alternatives for those with test-taking anxiety so long as those alternatives are effective at measuring acquired understanding or ability. I am naturally skeptical of assignments being a good basis for grades because it's easy to do well on them without understanding the material and in my experience the students who pushed for assignments being a big part of grades tended to be the ones who didn't really understand the material. They needed that as a means to cushion their grade. But yeah, I agree there are other ways to demonstrate knowledge. Research papers, for example, can be a good alternative means of demonstrating understanding.

A major counterargument I remember regarding my not doing homework is that homework was supposed to teach me habits of mind that would serve me well in the future. At every level of education I was in, there was a message of, "Sure, you can do fine with what you are doing at this level, but once you are in [blank], you'll need to buckle down and do the work." That never happened though. My learning methods were fine. I call BS on the idea that the homework I was getting actually was an effective tool to teach those those skills, and I call BS on the idea that grades were understood to represent whether I developed those skills. Schools, especially elite ones, are more and more coming around to this position and adopting grading practices more in line with high quality colleges. I won the pedagogical arguments I made as a teenager, it seems, but that's hollow consolation.

I don't think I'm better off for having one through the experience I did. I suffered in the foster care system because I didn't get grades relative to my perceived ability. It created a great deal of tension in my placements. I remember being yelled at a foster parent for what seemed like hours because I wasn't on track to get into MIT or a suitable backup Ivy given my grades. Given that a huge % of foster kids are in prison or homeless as adults, I have to say that this expectation was a tad unrealistic. If I had a 4.0, I probably would've had a lot of options for college placement. I was an AP scholar with near perfect aptitude tests and came from the foster care system. Add that to a 4.0 and that's an application almost any school would snatch up in a heartbeat. I actually try not to think about how I would've thrived in current systems too much because it's really upsetting. Again, I landed on my feet fine, but it's not pleasant to think about how doors were closed off that didn't have to be closed.

[_Kevin Graham]

I told you being a public school teacher is the worst job I've ever held in my life. I found stacking boxes in a factory for $7/hr more rewarding.

The fact that you were hired by them is the biggest knock against the public school system I can possibly imagine.

[_ajax18]

The fact that you were hired by them is the biggest knock against the public school system I can possibly imagine.

Then I suppose the feeling is mutual. Each year they start the year with substitutes because most people know what a bad job it is. I'm surprised you're not teaching public high school Kevin. An inner city Atlanta school would probably be a good fit for you.