Kavanaugh and Perjury

[_Some Schmo]

Somewhat impressed with Jeff Flake right now. It looks like he let McConnell know he didn't have the votes to confirm without an investigation.

I wonder if this will make Kavanaugh withdraw. Does he really want to face an investigation?

[_canpakes]

Which one are you in this case subs? The patsy or dishonest cynic?

Apart from your overestimation on whatever imaginary consequence results from Ford's ability to fly to Hawaii and Tahiti, your false dilemma is amusing.
But alas, im that 3rd option - the realist, whereas it was remarkably clear that Ford had no credibility for her allegation; was (at best) a pawn; and was dishonest.

Exhibit H for ‘avoiding the actual question’ seems to reveal that the ‘false dilemma’ misses the true third option - that you are both a patsy and a dishonest cynic. ; )

[_EAllusion]

Exhibit H for ‘avoiding the actual question’ seems to reveal that the ‘false dilemma’ misses the true third option - that you are both a patsy and a dishonest cynic. ; )

I don't have a fear of flying, but my partner's mother does. It's bad enough that she has been known to have panic attacks in the airport. She still flies for trips often enough. She went to New York for vacation last year with my partner and will again this year, in fact. There's no way she'd fly out to do something she's apprehensive to do. I think knowledge of this is so common that anyone employing that argument is going to hit people who should be able to reason out their own experience. Obviously you or I is a lost cause, but I'm talking about the core audience of the right-wing circles that are pumping up this argument.

Maggie Koerth-Baker wrote this:

In a quick search I haven’t found a lot about situation-specific flying fears. But I did find a typology of fear of flying, based on surveys of more than 400 people who had sought treatment for that fear. (An action that already puts them at a higher level of fear than, say, myself — someone who really hates being on planes but isn’t affected enough by that fear to go see a psychologist.) And from that study, it seems like it is pretty normal to be really afraid of flying — and do it anyway. At least sometimes.

Of the people in this study, 83 percent of men and 90 percent of women experienced severe anxiety to outright panic at the thought of flying. Yet the vast majority had flown in the past two years. Twenty-three percent had flown in the past year — about the same percent as those who had avoided flying for a decade. The same study shows that fear of flying interacts with (and can be exacerbated by) other kinds of fears and anxieties. Basically, this suggests it’s just not that weird to force yourself on to a plane to go on vacation, and feel a lot more apprehensive about getting on a plane to go do something you’re terrified of — like testify before Congress.

When I read that, all I could think is this is nerding out on a subject that most people get from anecdotal experience with their own fears about flying, people they know's fears, or phobias that operate similarly. And I think people pushing this argument are in a usually in position to know that Ford hasn't been caught in some material lie here. So what does it say that they don't care? Hence my speculation.

[_Kevin Graham]

for what it's worth, I met a family on our cruise last month and the husband had a huge fear of boats.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

So what KG and EA are suggesting is that someone who has a fear of doing something can, in fact, overcome the fear if it's important to do so.

That's call bravery.

- Doc

[_Some Schmo]

People who fear going to the dentist do it daily. People get past these kinds of anxiety for the greater good. Only a bullshitter would argue otherwise.

[_EAllusion]

So what Kevin Graham and EAllusion are suggesting is that someone who has a fear of doing something can, in fact, overcome the fear if it's important to do so.

That's call bravery.

- Doc

Well, I did have a quote that said, "The same study shows that fear of flying interacts with (and can be exacerbated by) other kinds of fears and anxieties. Basically, this suggests it’s just not that weird to force yourself on to a plane to go on vacation, and feel a lot more apprehensive about getting on a plane to go do something you’re terrified of — like testify before Congress."

But go with that if you want. I take it for granted that the idea that Ford is a proven liar because she said she's afraid to fly but has *gasp* flown for vacations is stupid as hell in a way lots of people will notice and use that as a launch-point to wonder why it's getting played up in the kind of media sources subs is tuned into.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I used to be terrified of flying. Straight up on the verge of panic terrified. I don't know when I got over it, but it was sometime ~8 years ago. Before that it wasn't unusual for me to drink enough to have a buzz pre-flight and then have a few in the air. So, if I had a choice to not fly if I didn't have to I wouldn't do it.

That said, as I mentioned upthread, the Senate offered to fly staffers out to interview her. She declined. Personally I think her lawyer was delaying until the other two accusers' allegations could drop, but that's just me guessing.

Whatever the case may be, I kind of agree with subgenius this is a smart play by the Repubs. Just long enough to say they did their due diligence and take the wind out of the #justbelieveher crowd. I'm curious if the Democrats can extend this week into, what? Seven? They need to bleed this process hard, but they better come with something else this week that's more compelling than an Avenatti-esque 'pushed me up against the wall' BS.

eta: I should add I think the R's are leaving themselves time to push through their second choice in October if Kavanaugh doesn't get the vote.

- Doc

[_EAllusion]

for what it's worth, I met a family on our cruise last month and the husband had a huge fear of boats.

I have a very serious fear of public speaking. Yet, I have a job where I have to do public speaking on a semi-regular basis. It's cliché', but when I tell people my fears who don't know about them, they act surprised, say they never would guess, and describe me as a very good public speaker. But in my mind, I'm miserable at it and the fear can be overwhelming. It's a little better than it once was, but it's still bad. I once briefly passed out on my feet at the dais giving a speech.

I've managed to get by because I have a semi-tolerable comfort zone in speech environments I've powered through before, but if something throws me off my expectations or puts me into a new speaking environment, it's a nightmare.

This is ordinary for how phobias work. Phobias are so common that lots of people know what that's like. If someone "proved" I was a liar about having a fear of public speaking by showing a video of me giving teaching a class, it would be asinine.

[_Some Schmo]

I have a very serious fear of public speaking.

I've heard numerous times this is the population's number one fear. While I suppose I understand it to a certain extent, there's another part of me that's completely uncomprehending. There are few things in life that give me a bigger thrill than pulling off a well delivered speech/presentation/bit.

It's been part of my career for a few decades now, though, so that might something to do with it. The only time I fear a public speaking gig is when I'm unprepared. I'm never unprepared, not for many years.

Now if you asked me to bungee jump, well... good luck with that.

ETA: This is actually one of the few areas I give the church credit. I loved giving talks. I didn't care about the content; I just liked babbling instead of listening. I often wonder where I'd have discovered my love of it were it not for church.