Kavanaugh and Perjury

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Post Reply
_DoubtingThomas
_Emeritus
Posts: 4551
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

EAllusion wrote: No one, as best I can tell. That doesn't mean politics should just ignore women's rights.


I agree we shouldn't ignore women's rights.

Nobody talks about the disastrous Citizens United or Exxon Shipping Co. v. Baker. A conservative Supreme Court can block environmental regulations, taxes on the rich, science and NASA funding, and many things.

EAllusion wrote: State legislatures currently pass extreme anti-abortion laws now even though it those laws are illegal. Numerous states have laws on the books like that that will automatically take effect if Roe vs. Wade is reversed. Republicans have already been remarkably effective at making it extremely difficult for women to get abortions with laws that chip away at abortion access in large geographic areas in the country.


But not extreme anti-abortions laws. Countries like El Salvador do have extreme anti-abortion laws.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
_DoubtingThomas
_Emeritus
Posts: 4551
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

EAllusion wrote:Something like 1 in 4 women have an abortion in the course of their lives. It's very common


But polls show that extremes on both sides are very unpopular. Americans have a moderate view.

"Americans with more absolute positions tend to come down on the side of abortion being legal under any circumstances (29%) than being illegal in all circumstances (18%)."
https://news.gallup.com/poll/235445/abo ... vided.aspx

In other words less than 1/3 of Americans are completely pro-choice.
_EAllusion
_Emeritus
Posts: 18519
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _EAllusion »

DoubtingThomas wrote:
Nobody talks about the disastrous Citizens United


Dude. Citizens United is talked about constantly in center-left circles. There's a substantial movement to amend the Constitution because of it. It shows up on symbolic ballot resolutions across the country all the time. When Democrats talk about the Supreme Court, it's one of the first things they typically mention. There are few things talked about more than Citizens United. It's a top 10 Democrat issue.

I support the Citizens United decision and think its opponents tend not to understand the underlying 1st amendment arguments in favor of it. But I fully recognize that if Democrats get enough judicial power, one of the first things they'd be interested in doing is reversing that decision. And if Democrats got a large enough majority to start passing Constitutional amendments, one of the model Citizens United amendments probably is the very first thing they'd pass.

But not extreme anti-abortions laws. Look at countries like El Salvador to see extreme anti-abortion laws.

I guess no matter how extreme a law is, you can always point to something more extreme. But there is real risk of states having laws that outlaw abortion in virtually all cases and prescribe serious criminal penalties for women or providers who violate the law. For a large number of women, abortion will no longer be a viable choice and this will have very significant consequences for them individually and for society. Having looked it up, something on the order of 1 out of every 2 women below the poverty line have an abortion in their lifetime. Imagine the social consequences if those decisions weren't allowed. I'm not asking you to think about whether you agree or disagree. Just imagine the impact. Now imagine if every one of those abortions was as immoral killing. Abortion is quite rightly thought of as a hugely consequential issue.
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Kevin Graham »

I can tell you that Brazil outlaws abortion. And the poor families just keep having babies, making the poor are larger segment of the overall population. People aren't going to stop having sex I don't care how religious you claim to be, and that's what Republicans don't understand. "Abstinence" isn't a viable option.

This backfires in Brazil because everyone has to vote, so naturally you get more people wanting to elect Leftist types who promise to the masses things like a guaranteed monthly salary. And the rich people in Brazil wanting the Right Winger guy can't ever catch a break because they are too many poor people voting.

If eligible voter in American had to vote I suspect Republicans would probably never win another election unless the Democrats did something really crazy like what's happening in Brazil. In Brazil the Left took advantage of their power for so many decades, corruption galore.
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Kevin Graham »

You have a newly minted "Republican" in the form of the President of the United States stating on National Television that women who choose to abort must be punished by the law.

That's pretty damned extreme to me, especially coming from someone who probably didn't give a rats ass about abortion for the first 60 years of his life.
_canpakes
_Emeritus
Posts: 8541
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:54 am

Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _canpakes »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
canpakes wrote:Doc, I think that a very strong case can be made for the acknowledgement of ‘relatable’ being subtly pitched as synonymous with recommended within politics. I’d argue that this sort of affinity branding is a major goal within Republican strategy.


No. That's why the words relatable and recommended are two different words. And it's the Democrats who're actually making Judge Kavanaugh relatable to the blue collar types by painting him as a drunken Iris frat boy who likes sports, parties, and getting into fights.

Before that picture was painted he had the air of and 'branding' of a preparation school cum Ivy leaguer who is a Beltway insider.

Now? Dude likes beer and doesn't take crap from nobody. THAT is MAGA and speaking to Trump's base. Big mistake on the Democrats' part.

- Doc

I am speaking generally. This particular situation is certainly more convoluted. But Republicans are better skilled at this sort of branding, and they’ve co-opted the Democratic effort to expose Kav’s behavior and turned that around to make it more relatable (as in the, “I like beer” monologue). The addition of the ‘angry’ angle has always had strong appeal to the deepest part of the Republican Base who have been convinced by the the party strategists that they’ve been marginalized, ignored and disrespected in favor of brown and gay folks, etc. This was in evidence both with Kav and as seen with Graham’s opening remarks.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

canpakes wrote:I am speaking generally. This particular situation is certainly more convoluted. But Republicans are better skilled at this sort of branding, and they’ve co-opted the Democratic effort to expose Kav’s behavior and turned that around to make it more relatable (as in the, “I like beer” monologue). The addition of the ‘angry’ angle has always had strong appeal to the deepest part of the Republican Base who have been convinced by the the party strategists that they’ve been marginalized, ignored and disrespected in favor of brown and gay folks, by The Mainstream Media etc. This was in evidence both with Kav and as seen with Graham’s opening remarks.


I made the edit above to, in my opinion only, identify their source of outrage. They're constantly being told what they are, ie, bigoted-racist-sexist, when in reality I would say most Conservatives are just more traditionalists that are concerned with jobs. Getting hammered daily by a party that openly advocates, in their minds, deviancy and then judged for not accepting it just pisses them off. If I had to guess they're more live and let live, on a low-key vibe, than they're given credit for. This is why the Fake News angle resonates with them because they're not given any sense of nuance, and are just painted in the worst possible way in what feels like all the time.

- Doc
Last edited by Guest on Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Water Dog
_Emeritus
Posts: 1798
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:10 am

Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Water Dog »

Hmm.

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com ... count.html

Ford testified last week that she had never revealed the details of the alleged attack until 2012, when she was in couples therapy with her husband. She said the memories percolated up as they revisited a disagreement they’d had over her insistence on installing a "second front door" when they had remodeled their Palo Alto, Calif., home.

The need to explain a decision her husband "didn't understand," Ford testified, pushed her to say she wanted the door to alleviate symptoms of "claustrophobia" and "panic attacks" she still suffered from an attempted rape allegedly perpetrated by Kavanaugh in high school during the early 1980s.

"Is that the reason for the second door -- front door -- is claustrophobia?" asked Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee. "Correct," Ford replied.

Ford never specified when the renovation took place, leaving a possible impression that it and the therapy session happened around the same time.


Spoiler alert: they did not happen around the same time.

Public records reveal that the Fords obtained a building permit to add an additional room and an additional door four years before the 2012 counselling sessions, in February 2008.

But documents reveal the door was installed years before as part of an addition, and has been used by renters and even a marriage counseling business.

"The door was not an escape route but an entrance route," said an attorney familiar with the ongoing congressional investigation. "It appears the real plan for the second front door was to rent out a separate room."


She had to go to therapy to discuss a second door they had added years earlier?

That was still causing marital distress, huh?

Here's the real reason for the second door: they bought this house from another marital counselor (who is not the same as the therapist the Fords went to in order to get over their Door Grief) who wanted to maintain that residence as her professional office. So she sold them the house, but they installed a second door and room for her to continue her business in.

Other documents, including health care-provider registration records, reveal that a marriage counselor listed Ford's home address as her place of employment, ostensibly using the extra room and door for her clinical practice. That marriage therapist, Sylvia Adkins Randall, sold the home to the Fords in 2007, but continued to maintain the address for her business.


And if she needed this Second Door to fight her claustrophobia and panic -- why is it she didn't install this critical second escape route in their second home as well?

Also casting doubt on Ford's story is the fact she installed no such escape door at a second home, which property records show she and her husband own in Santa Cruz, Calif., less than five blocks from the beach.
Yet she recently told a close friend, according to media reports, that she has resisted purchasing a home without a second exit from the master bedroom. Without it, she said she would never feel safe.

...

Property records show Ford and her husband, Russell Ford, bought the beach house in 2007. This July -- the same month Ford sent a letter to Feinstein accusing Kavanaugh of attacking her -- Ford applied for permits to build a front porch and new decks at the home, located on Seaside Street in Santa Cruz. There is no application for a second front door, however, and the recent permits are the only ones applied for since 2007.


No evidence has emerged of any other exterior door construction at either of Ford's homes, authorized or not.


Can you shed some light on this, Doctor?

Ford’s attorneys did not respond to repeated requests for comment.


As expected.
_Res Ipsa
_Emeritus
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:37 pm

Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Res Ipsa »

What? Her lawyers didn’t respond to the right-wing guy who tried to smear her with a copy of her year book, which he had never seen, based on anonymous sources? The same guy who claimed Obama was setting up a shadow government and was funding a training camp for violent antifa protesters?

I wouldn’t return calls from the guy, either.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: Kavanaugh and Perjury

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Res Ipsa wrote:What? Her lawyers didn’t respond to the right-wing guy who tried to smear her with a copy of her year book, which he had never seen, based on anonymous sources? The same guy who claimed Obama was setting up a shadow government and was funding a training camp for violent antifa protesters?

I wouldn’t return calls from the guy, either.


That's par for the course from one of the dumbest internet posters ever.
Post Reply