Res Ipsa wrote:If this thread is any sort of reflection of the state of the union, we’re pretty screwed, aren’t we?
To this point, I thought David French's article in The Atlantic today was pretty good: The Wounds Won't Heal.
He and I disagree with the outcome but I think he does a pretty good job of highlighting why the divide was so bitter this time.
A couple of the most poignant points, to me:
To this point I’ve not focused on the bad-faith actions and actors that polluted the discourse. The reason is simple. When even good-faith voices find themselves so diametrically, emotionally opposed—unable to step into the other side’s shoes—then we know polarization and division are deeply embedded into the current American DNA.
And we also know that in those circumstances the actual radicals, those who are truly unreasonable, will lash out with ever greater ferocity, placing strains not just on our body politic but also on our sense of public peace. One of the saddest aspects of the entire sad affair was watching both the Ford and Kavanaugh families face threats to their lives. Even more distressing: No one was surprised. This is how we expect political disputes to play out today.
It’s in moments like this when we realize that the center is not holding. One side wins a round, and both sides prepare for the next fight—determined to show more resolve and commitment when the battle comes again.
I’d like to end on a note of optimism, in faith that the American people will unite once again. But that faith is flagging, and if America continues to divide, shrewd historians will look beyond any given election to see the reason. They’ll look for divergent values, and when they do, they’ll see the fight over Brett Kavanaugh, a fight that opened wounds that did not heal.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
Res Ipsa wrote:If this thread is any sort of reflection of the state of the union, we’re pretty screwed, aren’t we?
That was a we as in we Americans. The fact that you assumed I meant anything narrower than that illustrates the problem perfectly.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:'____ Asymmetry Principle' states the amount of energy needed to refute ____ is an order of magnitude greater than that needed to produce it. ____ can be propagated quickly, but can be more difficult to disprove.
I.E., now known the Dr. Ford Anomaly.
- Doc
Funny, I could have sworn it was the Trump anomaly...
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Res Ipsa wrote:If this thread is any sort of reflection of the state of the union, we’re pretty screwed, aren’t we?
To this point, I thought David French's article in The Atlantic today was pretty good: The Wounds Won't Heal.
He and I disagree with the outcome but I think he does a pretty good job of highlighting why the divide was so bitter this time.
A couple of the most poignant points, to me:
To this point I’ve not focused on the bad-faith actions and actors that polluted the discourse. The reason is simple. When even good-faith voices find themselves so diametrically, emotionally opposed—unable to step into the other side’s shoes—then we know polarization and division are deeply embedded into the current American DNA.
And we also know that in those circumstances the actual radicals, those who are truly unreasonable, will lash out with ever greater ferocity, placing strains not just on our body politic but also on our sense of public peace. One of the saddest aspects of the entire sad affair was watching both the Ford and Kavanaugh families face threats to their lives. Even more distressing: No one was surprised. This is how we expect political disputes to play out today.
It’s in moments like this when we realize that the center is not holding. One side wins a round, and both sides prepare for the next fight—determined to show more resolve and commitment when the battle comes again.
I’d like to end on a note of optimism, in faith that the American people will unite once again. But that faith is flagging, and if America continues to divide, shrewd historians will look beyond any given election to see the reason. They’ll look for divergent values, and when they do, they’ll see the fight over Brett Kavanaugh, a fight that opened wounds that did not heal.
Interesting piece. How do you see the outcome?
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:'____ Asymmetry Principle' states the amount of energy needed to refute ____ is an order of magnitude greater than that needed to produce it. ____ can be propagated quickly, but can be more difficult to disprove.
I.E., now known the Dr. Ford Anomaly.
- Doc
Funny, I could have sworn it was the Trump anomaly...
Oh, no doubt the BS is thicker, recurrent, and deeper coming from the Right. That's why I'm a radical centrist who leans Left.
I just find it disappointing and hypocritcal when Liberals succumb to outright fanaticism, but that's politics for ya.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Res Ipsa wrote:Interesting piece. How do you see the outcome?
I wouldn't be surprised to see political parties continue to fracture and divide especially since the Internet will continue to ease the splintering of our common identity as *insert country's name here*. Here in America we might maintain the facade of a two-party system, but we'll see groups within groups form and agitate for their platforms. It'd be nice to see groups under different and fully indentifiable banners gain seats here in the US, and then coalitions can form and dissolve as needed, but I won't hold my breath.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Res Ipsa wrote:That was a we as in we Americans. The fact that you assumed I meant anything narrower than that illustrates the problem perfectly.
The fact that you think I didn't understand you illustrates the problem perfectly... hint, lighten up.
Your pictures speak for themselves. And they speak loudly about you.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Res Ipsa wrote:Interesting piece. How do you see the outcome?
I wouldn't be surprised to see political parties continue to fracture and divide especially since the Internet will continue to ease the splintering of our common identity as *insert country's name here*. Here in America we might maintain the façade of a two-party system, but we'll see groups within groups form and agitate for their platforms. It'd be nice to see groups under different and fully indentifiable banners gain seats here in the US, and then coalitions can form and dissolve as needed, but I won't hold my breath.
- Doc
I have a hard time seeing how that could happen without significant changes in how we elect folks to office.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Water Dog wrote:The fact that you think I didn't understand you illustrates the problem perfectly... hint, lighten up.
Your pictures speak for themselves. And they speak loudly about you.
You sure they aren't speaking loudly about the target audience? I certainly don't see anyone complaining about 'rapepublicans', and other assorted nasties being thrown at wrong-think on this forum. Liberals on this forum lose their crap when treated like they treat others.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
