The Great CAGW Debate

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_Maksutov
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Maksutov »

Res Ipsa wrote:Exactly, Canpakes. You see the slight of hand? Dog took a snippet from a 12 year old Lindzen opening post Ed that doesn’t apply to hurricanes and acted like it applies to hurricanes! That’s how global warming denial ____ gets spread around the internet. These guys generate tons of false and misleading factoids, graphs, memes, and cartoons, and people like Water Dog, who don’t care enough to inform themselves, lap it up and repeat it. If Dog had wanted to know about hurricane formation, there is plenty of information on the internet, And had he done so, he would have rapidly understood that the phenomenon Lindzen is talking about had nothing to do with hurricanes. But Dog didn’t look, cuz Dog don’t care.


When this is someone's hero and model, don't expect honesty or integrity or HONOR.

https://www.politifact.com/personalitie ... ing/false/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 45c7718846

http://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Res Ipsa
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Water Dog wrote:
canpakes wrote:Dog, you may want to look into this further. LIndzen’s ‘excitation’ process actually refers to extratropical storms. This process is not in play with hurricanes.

Regardless of the veracity of the claim about climate change pushing hurricanes to be stronger, Lindzen’s claim has nothing to do with that part of the debate.

Ok, I think I see what you're getting at. A valid point. Although I'm not sure what the actual difference is. Worth pointing out, Lindzen didn't author that tweet. If there is some technicality we're quibbling over (extra vs sub vs tropical), perhaps someone misapplied Lindzen's statement in this situation. The basic point is that global warming, if true, would ultimately lead to less storms such as these. Is that not accurate? You may be right about how this particular storm system formed. No idea.


Of course, no idea. And it’s not just a “valid point.” It’s a complete refutation of your post. And it’s not just a technicality. You’d know that if you cared enough about the truth to educate yourself a little before you post.

And, no, you don’t get to weasel out of the point of your post. The post was about hurricanes.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Water Dog
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Water Dog »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Water Dog wrote:Am I Tom Nelson?

No...

You just admitted to lying.

And then proceed to be the scoundrel that you are.

Res Ipsa wrote:...Whether you are the dishonest initiator or the useful idiot disseminator, you are complicit. All because having your “team” win is more important than the truth...

Here you are, doing it again... droning on and on about, what? About me. Suddenly you don't have any interest in talking about cooling trends or erratic temperature datasets. You just want to talk about me.

The truth is you're a dishonest guy. And an asshole. Not a little one, either. That's what has been brought to light. You don't care about the environment. Or people. You care about yourself. Maybe you are right about catastrophic anthropongenic global warming. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, you're a nasty, unreasonable person. If the sky is indeed falling, look in the mirror and thank yourself for damned it all up.

RI, I am done. I will not click on this thread again.

[image deleted]
_Jersey Girl
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Water Dog wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:You see the slight of hand? Dog took a snippet from a 12 year old Lindzen Op Ed that doesn’t apply to hurricanes and acted like it applies to hurricanes!

Am I Tom Nelson?


There it is right there. ^^^^^
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Water Dog wrote:You just admitted to lying.

And then proceed to be the scoundrel that you are.

Res Ipsa wrote:...Whether you are the dishonest initiator or the useful idiot disseminator, you are complicit. All because having your “team” win is more important than the truth...


Here you are, doing it again... droning on and on about, what? About me. Suddenly you don't have any interest in talking about cooling trends or erratic temperature datasets. You just want to talk about me.

The truth is you're a dishonest guy. And an asshole. Not a little one, either. That's what has been brought to light. You don't care about the environment. Or people. You care about yourself. Maybe you are right about catastrophic anthropongenic global warming. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, you're a nasty, unreasonable person. If the sky is indeed falling, look in the mirror and thank yourself for damned it all up.

RI, I am done. I will not click on this thread again.

Image


What a damned joke.

:lol:
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Res Ipsa
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Bye, Felicia. You stuck the flounce this time.

Once again, WD relies on his last line of defense, the dishonest accusation that somebody else lied. Let's roll the videotape:

My first post on the subject of the Lindzen quote was this:

Exactly, Canpakes. You see the slight of hand? Dog took a snippet from a 12 year old Lindzen opening post Ed that doesn’t apply to hurricanes and acted like it applies to hurricanes! That’s how global warming denial ____ gets spread around the internet. These guys generate tons of false and misleading factoids, graphs, memes, and cartoons, and people like Water Dog, who don’t care enough to inform themselves, lap it up and repeat it.


Now, that post is 100% true. Dog took a statement from Lindzen that doesn't apply to hurricanes and acted like it applies to hurricanes. I also specifically said that Dog had lapped up and repeated someone else's falsehood. Both of those sentences are true.

How did Dog respond? Did he fess up that he copied BS and posted it as if it were true? Nope. Here's what he did:

Res Ipsa wrote:
You see the slight of hand? Dog took a snippet from a 12 year old Lindzen opening post Ed that doesn’t apply to hurricanes and acted like it applies to hurricanes!

Am I Tom Nelson?


Note what Dog does here? He drops my second sentence, where I make it clear that his role in this case is reposting someone else's misleading BS. And in my response, I say that for the second time:

No, you’re the guy who doesn’t care, remember? You don’t care enough to check the false and misleading ____ off of denialist websites before you post it.


And, true to form, Dog again repeats only part of my post, in order to falsely accuse me of lying:

Water Dog wrote:Am I Tom Nelson?

Res Ipsa wrote:No...

Water Dog wrote:You just admitted to lying.



So, where's the lie? No wonder WD flounced.

But it's worse than that. WD, as usual, tries to deflect responsibility from himself to someone else, in this case, the guy who wrote the tweet that WD reposted. But Tom Nelson quoted Lindzen absolutely correctly:

When you have less difference in temperature, you have less excitation of extratropical storms, not more.


But here's how Dog himself described the Lindzen quote:

It plays into the point of politicization. When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Confirmation bias. That's a lefty passionately talking about hurricane michael as proof of global warming. It's not. As Lindzen points out, the same models which predict global warming, they also predict a decrease in tropical storms. These storms form as a consequence of temperature differentials between poles and the equator. If global warming is true, a consequence of that is a decrease, not an increase, in those temperature differentials. Which means less tropical storms, and weaker tropical storms.


It was Dog, not Tom Nelson, who actually changed Lindzen's statement from "extratropical" to "tropical."

One feature of deniers: everything they accuse their opponents of, they are actually doing themselves. It's a strategy. Note Dog's accusation of politicization. The only person who injected politics into this issue is him, with his characterization of the original tweeter as a "lefty." To him, everything looks like a nail to the point that he changes Lindzen's words to fit his preconception. Confirmation bias, thy name is Water Dog. It leads him to write a whole paragraph on how tropical storms form that is 100% complete BS.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Res Ipsa
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Res Ipsa »

WD keeps whining because I'm talking about him. Well, he is the point. The problem isn't the data. The problem isn't the science. The problem is Water Dog and his denier pals. And until you take apart what they do, and specifically how they argue their denier BS, you can't really grasp how extremist and anti-science they actually are. So, yeah, I'm going to talk about WD's role in spreading false and misleading information as an integral part of how deniers operate.

So far, I've already talked about only three of WD's posts on the other thread. Already he can't stand the heat. Has he learned anything? Nope. Like a dog returns to his vomit, he's rushing back to the most popular denialist cesspool on the internet. And that's how this works, boys and girls.

by the way, although Water Dog accuses me of somehow approaching this thread dishonestly, I do want to point out that I told him exactly what I intended to do in the very first post on this thread:

No dog, You’ve posted enough material to spend months on already. You’ve already shown that you know ____ all about climate science and just cut and paste whatever ____ you can find on denier sites. I’m going to spend some time going through everything you’ve posted to date just to show, point by painful point, how you have already shown the depth of your ignorance and mendacity. And I intend to be pretty damn brutal, be cause you and your denier ilk are a threat to the well being of those I love. Buckle up, buttercup.


I think I've delivered on that so far. And I intend to keep on delivering until I've worked my way through all Dog's posts on the other thread. With some general commentary on deniers and their methods thrown in for good measure. Oh, and I'll get to the latest denier "SCANDAL" headline, too -- the one from the folks that have cried wolf regularly for years.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_canpakes
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _canpakes »

Water Dog wrote:
canpakes wrote:Dog, you may want to look into this further. Lindzen’s ‘excitation’ process actually refers to extratropical storms. This process is not in play with hurricanes.

...

... The basic point is that global warming, if true, would ultimately lead to less storms such as these. Is that not accurate?

If “storms such as these” refers to hurricanes, then no, the claim that global warming will lead to fewer or weaker hurricanes is not accurate.

But the claim has been insinuated by Lindzen, and this inaccuracy has been picked up and parroted by the denialist crowd, for years now.
_Maksutov
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Maksutov »

Image
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Res Ipsa
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Re: The Great CAGW Debate

Post by _Res Ipsa »

canpakes wrote:
But the claim has been insinuated by Lindzen, and this inaccuracy has been picked up and parroted by the denialist crowd, for years now.


And that point can't be stressed enough. Lindzen created the original confusion by following the sentence we're talking about with a claim about tropical storms. The denialsphere inaccurately picked up the first sentence. And even after 12 years of correcting the misunderstanding, the false idea is still asserted by deniers. Unlike science, there is absolutely zero self-correction in the denialsphere.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
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