Suspicious packages sent to Clinton, Obama, CNN

[_Res Ipsa]

Any left-leaning types want to own what our side of the aisle has produced with regard to nutjobs and extremists?

- Doc

I don’t think it makes any sense for either side of the political spectrum to “own” the mentally unstable folks that are on the same side of the right-left divide. What I do think they should own is the fact that the rhetoric used by their side can encourage those folks to engage in acts of violence. I think that the MMM was caused, in sugnificant part, by BY’s combative, amped up sermons in the months leading up to the massacre.

I think part of what should happen after incidents like this is sober reflection about whether political rhetoric pushes unstable people toward acts of violence. The thing I can’t help but wonder about is the effect of things like the right’s demonization of Soros on the neo-nazis who believe in a cabal of Jewish Puppetmasters who run the world.

[Guest]

By the way, I don’t want to burst Dog’s tiny little bubble or anything, but these lists of ‘who threatens more’ are all over the Internet, and you can find any number of them that match what you’d like to believe. This snippet is interesting, too:

A 2015 survey of law-enforcement agencies conducted by the Police Executive Research Forum and the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security found that the police rate antigovernment extremists as a greater threat than reactionary Islamists. The authors wrote that “right-wing violence appears consistently greater than violence by Muslim extremists in the United States since 9/11, according to multiple definitions in multiple datasets.”

According to the Department of Homeland Security, “Sovereign Citizens”—fringe antigovernmentalists—launched 24 violent attacks from 2010 through 2014, mostly against law enforcement personnel. When Robert Dear shot and killed three people at a Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood clinic in 2015, it became the latest in a series of bloody attacks on abortion providers dating back to Roe v. Wade in 1973. In the 30 years that followed that landmark decision, providers and clinics were targeted in more than 300 acts of violence, including arson, bombings, and assassinations, according to a study by the Rand Corporation.

But, Dog’s posting pics of guys who allegedly threatened to “kidnap the children of Republicans”, so it’s all good. ; )

https://www.thenation.com/article/why-d ... -violence/

(Warning: link is to a site no more biased than any posted by Dog. )

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

So, that's two left-leaning types so far not willing to own their party's rhetoric that sends nutjobs into a sort of frenzy.

Ok.

- Doc

[Guest]

So, that's two left-leaning types so far not willing to own their party's rhetoric that sends nutjobs into a sort of frenzy.

Ok.

- Doc

Has anyone asked Dog to own the actions of our nutty Republican bomber?

I’d try to own the nasty language of my party regulars but it’s hard to dig up very many ‘Independent Party’ politicians. ; )

ETA: Doc, shouldn’t you be asking who will ‘call out’ that behavior, instead? Usually, the person to ‘own’ a behavior is the one doing it.

[_Res Ipsa]

So, that's two left-leaning types so far not willing to own their party's rhetoric that sends nutjobs into a sort of frenzy.

Ok.

- Doc

If you’re counting me in there, I don’t think you read what I posted. And you’ve changed the question from owning the nutjobs to owning the rhetoric. I condemn any rhetoric that encourages or gives approval to this kind of violence, regardless of whose “team” does it.

[_Water Dog]

Has anyone asked Dog to own the actions of our nutty Republican bomber?

I'm not sure if anyone asked me, but does this count? I feel like I did so on my own...

Here's what I'll say. If it's confirmed to be what it now appears to be, you won't hear any excuses from me. A crazy person inspired by right-wing rhetoric. Agreed. It doesn't change any of the other points though, that this sort of thing is happening all the same on the left without complaint. This very well could have been a left wing prank. It was a dice roll. The media blowing it out of proportion, blaming Trump, Cuomo mobilizing the guard, etc., these are all attempts to profit politically from what this person who is most likely a literal mental case did. The media rhetoric will grow even more intense now over the next week.... stoking the very fires that led to this in the first place. What will be the lesson. If just trying to score points, it appears y'all won this round. But, sigh.

[_canpakes]

Has anyone asked Dog to own the actions of our nutty Republican bomber?

I'm not sure if anyone asked me, but does this count? I feel like I did so on my own...

Here's what I'll say. If it's confirmed to be what it now appears to be, you won't hear any excuses from me. A crazy person inspired by right-wing rhetoric. Agreed. It doesn't change any of the other points though, that this sort of thing is happening all the same on the left without complaint. This very well could have been a left wing prank. It was a dice roll. The media blowing it out of proportion, blaming Trump, Cuomo mobilizing the guard, etc., these are all attempts to profit politically from what this person who is most likely a literal mental case did. The media rhetoric will grow even more intense now over the next week.... stoking the very fires that led to this in the first place. What will be the lesson. If just trying to score points, it appears y'all won this round. But, sigh.

Dog, as far as I’m concerned, you can only own your own contributions to a situation or environment.

[_Chap]

... it appears y'all won this round.

Well, goodness knows who Water Dog imagines "y'all" to be. But if posting stuff that has credibility or relevance is the game being played here, I don't think Water Dog came out with a high score.

But seriously, kudos to him for actually coming out and recognising it!

[_Chap]

This article seems highly relevant to the discussion of political responsibility in the thread on the synagogue shootings:

Republican leaders see no link between the president’s rabble-rousing and the threats to some of his prominent critics

Donald Trump’s inadequate and self-referential response to last week’s spate of attempted pipe bomb attacks was, sadly, what we have come to expect from this most un-presidential of American presidents. As Andrew Cuomo, the governor of New York, told CNN, Trump has “never fully made the transition” from candidate to White House incumbent. It is plainly too much to hope that he ever will.

Trump’s narcissistic suggestion that the attacks, which exclusively targeted his political opponents and critics, were being exploited by Democrats and the media to discredit him ahead of next month’s congressional elections was disgraceful. Trump does not understand he is president of all Americans, not only those who voted for him. His reaction was unworthy, even by his very low standards.

But what of the reaction of Republicans? Trump, after all, was their party’s nominee for president. It is they who foisted him on the country (and the world), on the risible supposition that he was the best man for the job. And it is Republicans, in control of Congress, who have tolerated and frequently colluded in the alarming deterioration in the standards of US public discourse, civility and mutual respect from which this latest outrage stems.

Paul Ryan, the House speaker, condemned the attacks as “an act of terrorism” that had “no place in our democracy”. Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, expressed routine gratitude to the police and FBI. But neither man addressed the obvious concern that Trump’s angry, divisive and often violent rhetoric, spewing out over more than two years, has deeply affected the way Americans manage their differences.

Asked whether Trump’s irresponsible language and behaviour were directly or indirectly to blame for the actions of the alleged bomber, who is a registered Republican, Orrin Hatch, a Republican senator, turned mealy-mouthed. “I don’t see anything really wrong with the president. I think he’s in a tough position. He’s getting attacked on all sides, so he ought to be able to express himself.”

The reaction of pro-Republican, hard-right populist rabble-rousers was even more dismaying. The ageing shock jock Rush Limbaugh suggested that Democrats could have orchestrated the attacks to make Trump look bad. Fox TV host Lou Dobbs tweeted: “Fake News – Fake Bombs. Who could possibly benefit by so much fakery?” Ann Coulter, known for her extreme anti-immigrant views, said the “bombs are a liberal tactic”.

In fact, each target of the pipe bomb packages, from Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton to Robert de Niro and George Soros, had been singled out personally for criticism by Trump. They were all on the president’s enemies list.

Since taking office, Trump has continued to pillory “lying Hillary”. He defended white supremacists after a lethal riot in Charlottesville and regularly whips up animosity towards Muslims. His victimising of migrants has reached a new level of obnoxiousness with his threats against a migrant caravan now heading for the US-Mexico border.

All this venom, coming from the top, encourages and normalises division, distrust and outright hatred. Yet both Trump and Republican leaders refuse to acknowledge any link between his uncontrolled, inflammatory rhetoric and last week’s bombs, preferring, as ever, to blame the media – the “enemies of the people”. The murderous attack on a Maryland newspaper office and Trump’s applause for an assault on a Guardian reporter are not unconnected.

The failure of unthinkingly partisan congressional Republicans to limit the president’s excesses and moderate his behaviour is an alarming aspect of the Trump era. The craven kowtowing of experienced politicians who should know better is shocking. This spineless sycophancy was on show during the recent hearings on Brett Kavanaugh’s supreme court nomination. We see it again today. For the GOP, it’s all about power, not principle. Abraham Lincoln, where are you now?

[Reflexzero]

I think maybe a review is in order. Here is a list of leftists recently arrested for engaging in acts of violence against republicans. This is not a complete list. How many of these people were discussed here at Mormon Discussions? Please provide links to your previous comment history showing that you are fair and speak out against any and all acts of such violence and that you apply the same set of rules in determining who is responsible.
<snip pic>
William Clyde Allen III. Mailed ricin to President, Pentagon, and Sen. Cruz. Notice how the article doesn't even mention Cruz. Nor does it tell us what political party Allen was registered with. Nor does it dig into his Twitter and Facebook activities. Huh, why not?

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/10/03/ ... ed-during/

Allen is currently a registered Republican. Based on some of his Facebook posts (i.e. talking about the "marvelous works and wonder" of the universe), and his location, it's probably somewhat safe to say he's Mormon (or was).

Shawn Richard Christy. Made credible death threats against President, many months long fugitive. Leftist.

He threatened Morganelli (a Democrat) in the same post in which he threatened the President. He also self-described as a survivalist. Seems more like the general all-around anti-government nut than a "leftist."

Rene Boucher. Crazed leftist neighbor of Rand Paul. Attacked him, breaking ribs, damaging lungs.

This dude's nuttary seemed to stem more from Paul's yard asshattery. At least from witness statements and court filings. The two were definitely political opposites though, so I imagine that didn't exactly help.

Nathanial Blaine Luffman. Intent to axe murder Rand Paul and his family. Berkeley leftist.

Luffman often believed he himself was a Republican Senator from Kentucky, and his family had tried (unsuccessfully) on multiple occasions to get him involuntarily committed.

Wallace Grove Godwin. Intent to kill Scott Taylor, republican congressman in Virginia. Leftist.

This dude sued the federal government for not enforcing marijuana laws. Included in his complaint was a statement that said “I am a natural born conservative.”

Robert William Simet. Intent to kill republican senator at upcoming event. Leftist.

He was diagnosed schizophrenic, and wanted to kill her because he believed that she was a member of the Islamic State. I think it's a helluva stretch to pin this guy's actions being motivated by leftist ideology.

Sigh. I'm getting tired of cut and pasting. Surprising how much stuff there actually is. What in the world is inspiring all this leftist violence?

It certainly can be tiring. The few people here who are also my friend on Facebook have likely seen my ongoing list of right-wing extremists who have engaged in terrorist acts. It can be pretty overwhelming when focusing in on the fringes.

(Also, you had Laurence Key listed twice.)