I think he is hoping that people might be persuaded into thinking that this is not 'Arrogant Saudi prince has journalist critic murdered because he thinks he can get away with it' , but rather 'Weird Arab is killed by other weird Arabs for some special Arab reason, so who cares?'.
I was hoping for a 'the Jews did it', but we'll have to wait and see if subgenius fleshes out his vague assertion.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I was hoping for a 'the Jews did it',
Damn!!
How did you find out? Our cover was so carefully thought out ...
by the way, please could you confirm your home address, just so we can send you a Hanukkah card, of course?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
subgenius wrote:but this guy's death is different for a reason....and its not just for being typically "outspoken".
Well? What is it?
- Doc
No idea, but its unreasonable to assume that the facts conclude with "because he was outspoken critic". But hey, if this event is just a "business as usual" killing by the Saudis then the press is fixated suddenly why?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Water Dog wrote:The only thing about this that interests me is why Turkey is still a member of NATO.
I don't know if I'm super interested in the story, but when the Saudis' conduct an op, and somehow the agents involved are doxxed by the global media around the world it's kind of fascinating:
If you click on the article, it lol lists off the hit squad's names and faces (with a few exceptions). That's amazing.
From an operational perspective there are definitely some intriguing elements. Whatever happened was rushed. The information leaks also suggest a few possibilities. Trying to pin it on Trump though, Lord. I hope we don't have another 9/11. Or a confrontation with a major state. This may seem like peak crazy, oh no, lots of room left.
subgenius wrote:... if this event is just a "business as usual" killing by the Saudis then the press is fixated suddenly why?
I am not a close watcher of Saudi affairs, and I may be wrong about this - but so far as I know the Saudi government has not so far murdered a critical journalist in their country, and they have certainly never before organised an activity of this kind outside the borders of the Kingdom.
Under the circumstances, the surprising thing would be if this event did not attract attention. And it's not just the press who are taking notice.
Your attitude to this affair suggests you need to try to see the world in less conspiratorial colours. A Prince who largely acts without restraint of law has a Washington Post journalist killed for offending him. People talk about it quite a lot. Why does this require some kind of explanation other than the obvious one?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
subgenius wrote:... if this event is just a "business as usual" killing by the Saudis then the press is fixated suddenly why?
I am not a close watcher of Saudi affairs, and I may be wrong about this - but so far as I know the Saudi government has not so far murdered a critical journalist in their country, and they have certainly never before organised an activity of this kind outside the borders of the Kingdom.
Under the circumstances, the surprising thing would be if this event did not attract attention. And it's not just the press who are taking notice.
Your attitude to this affair suggests you need to try to see the world in less conspiratorial colours. A Prince who largely acts without restraint of law has a Washington Post journalist killed for offending him. People talk about it quite a lot. Why does this require some kind of explanation other than the obvious one?
you literally have no evidence for your theory (which is literally a conspiracy theory) and suddenly I am the conspiratorial fella. Maybe check this thread before you starting exclaiming what is obvious and what is not obvious....or was i the only one to read the proclamations in the OP?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Chap wrote:A Prince who largely acts without restraint of law has a Washington Post journalist killed for offending him. People talk about it quite a lot. Why does this require some kind of explanation other than the obvious one?
subgenius wrote:you literally have no evidence for your theory (which is literally a conspiracy theory)
I am puzzled. Where have you been these last couple of weeks?
There is a good summary here on our current knowledge of the 15-man Saudi team who arrived by plane from Saudi Arabia shortly before Khashoggi arrived at the consulate, and departed shortly after Khashoggi died. These included close associates of the Crown Prince, amongst whom were seven members of his bodyguard, and the head of Saudi forensics, carrying a bone saw in his luggage (that kind of thing tends to show up on security cameras).
I have seen no serious commentator who doubts that these people killed Khashoggi, and then dismembered his body. Likewise, while it is a logical possibility that they organised and carried out the killing while the Crown Prince remained in complete ignorance of that they were doing ... it is frankly wildly improbable given the dictatorial power he exercises.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
The disappearance of Khashoggi is contemporaneous with the disappearance, and possible murder, of the head of INTERPOL, Meng Hongwei. In one of these cases a highly visible individual with international position vanished without a trace and little fanfare; in the other a stunning amount of media coverage resulted in one of the largest news stories of the year.
While protecting the lives of dissidents and journalists are worthy goals, it is also important to a self governing people to be able to recognize outside attempts to manipulate them or drive them to actions that may not align with their self-interest
Private journalism plays a key role in a free and self-governing society, but in order to play that role well it needs to protect itself from outside manipulation. Western media outlets appear to have accepted the risk that they were being manipulated by a foreign government with a bad track record on the rights of journalists. They should give an account of why they elected to do so, and what they might do in the future to ensure that their readers are aware of the risk being accepted. The Washington Post and Associated Press pieces cited above offer helpful models, although both occurred relatively late in the process when the operation had already largely succeeded in its basic aims. The United States had been prevented from attaining a diplomatic solution to an international crisis and had been forced to engage in this matter at the very highest levels.
Western media need to engage in some introspection on another issue as well. Russian, Iranian, and now Turkish elements have wielded emotional appeals through the press in order to divide Americans and drive extra-national foreign policy agendas with success.
I wonder why the media would have willfully participated in being manipulated by a foreign government?